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"This is probably a good time for people to be reading 1984." This is ridiculous. The hate for Trump has caused people to go into utterly misguided tizzies, a

"This is probably a good time for people to be reading 1984." This is ridiculous. The hate for Trump has caused people to go into utterly misguided tizzies, and it's pathetic. I loathe Trump - but he's not a totalitarian. He has given no indication of encroaching on civil liberties, there's no indication he wants to socialize large parts of the economy, or expand control by government, or even expand surveillance programs. He's boorish, loud-mouthed and says crude things - but his policy actions are not that drastic. 'Enforce immigration laws' - fairly reasonable. 'Build pipelines' - outside of environmental concerns - absolutely normal. 'Re-negotiate trade deals' - not sure if I agree but not crazy. 'Get NATO allies to pay their share' - not crazy. A 'mild' social conservative totalitarian might roll back laws on gay marriage, abortion etc. - but Trump hasn't mentioned it at all. He has been forceful on trying to get American jobs back, and he'll likely overhaul the tax code, likely with some tax breaks. He hasn't been nearly as aggressive in terms of foreign policy as Clinton. He's indicated that he wants to get along with Russia. Is this such a bad thing? Clinton/Obama tried it earlier as well. I think he presents himself in a manner unfit for someone who's in public office, but in the end, his actual actions are not particularly outlandish - and nowhere near totalitarian. Obama would have socialized the entire healthcare system if he had the choice, and vastly expanded the welfare system, and would likely have introduced far more controlling legislation if allowed - and we do know he oversaw a fairly robust expansion of the surveillance state. So Obama happens to be a 'nice guy' and 'not boorish' - does that make him any more or less totalitarian. People need to grow up. Trump is kind of a blow-hard, not a Nazi.

mynameishere 10y ago
Wait...why do you loathe him? You seem reasonable in everything else you say. Trump is basically Nelson Rockefeller with the difference that he never got denounced as the liberal he is outside the pages of the National Review.
int_19h 10y ago
> He has given no indication of encroaching on civil liberties You mean, except for that part where he mentioned that he wants to strengthen the [non-existent] libel laws, so that "press can't get away with lies about me"? Or his early remarks on Muslims? Surveillance etc? > A 'mild' social conservative totalitarian might roll back laws on gay marriage, abortion etc. - but Trump hasn't mentioned it at all. Now we're firmly in the "alternative facts" territory. Watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dngW-FKKuo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dngW-FKKuo Or when he said that Japanese interment camps were a tough choice, but "that's how you win wars"?
- edblarney 10y ago
  1) " he wants to strengthen the [non-existent] libel laws, so that "press can't get away with lies about me"?" The press has called him out for his lies - but they have also blatantly lied about him - and others. There is nothing 'totalitarian' about being able to sue someone for printing lies. 2) You're blaming me for having 'alternative facts' when you're inventing them? The video indicates that 'campaign trail' Trump indicated that he was pro-life - because he was asked. (Of course, his whole life before that he was pro-choice, but to get GOP votes, he had to have this position publicly). But in the very video you offered as 'evidence' - he didn't at all indicate he'd be legislating on the issue. In fact - he said it would be decided in the courts. So a president indicating that issues 'decided in the courts' is now a 'Hitler totalitarian'? Just today, on Charlie Rose - the leftist PBS commentators were indicating that he's made no real indication of anything related to social justice. He did not mention 'abortion' in any of his policy docs, nor during any of his major speeches. I'd argue you're making up facts if you think Trump has any plans to press the abortion issue in any meaningful way. There will be zero legislation. But it doesn't matter - there's nothing at all in Trump's outlined policies that hint at 'totalitarianism'. Nothing. Obama murdered American citizens without a trial via drone strikes - and oversaw a massive expansion of the surveillance state. Those are 'scary totalitarian' things. And I don't even like Trump.
  - corin_ 10y ago
    > I'd argue you're making up facts if you think Trump has any plans to press the abortion issue in any meaningful way. There will be zero legislation. He literally already has signed an executive order about it. 'Donald Trump has signed an executive order to ban federal money going to international groups which perform or provide information on abortions. 'The US president's order shows he "wants to stand up for all Americans, including the unborn," his press secretary Sean Spicer said.' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38724063 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38724063
    - vedranm 10y ago
      He should have done that. There is absolutely no reason why other people should pay for someone's abortions.

mynameishere 10y ago

Wait...why do you loathe him? You seem reasonable in everything else you say. Trump is basically Nelson Rockefeller with the difference that he never got denounced as the liberal he is outside the pages of the National Review.

int_19h 10y ago

> He has given no indication of encroaching on civil liberties You mean, except for that part where he mentioned that he wants to strengthen the [non-existent] libel laws, so that "press can't get away with lies about me"? Or his early remarks on Muslims? Surveillance etc? > A 'mild' social conservative totalitarian might roll back laws on gay marriage, abortion etc. - but Trump hasn't mentioned it at all. Now we're firmly in the "alternative facts" territory. Watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dngW-FKKuo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dngW-FKKuo Or when he said that Japanese interment camps were a tough choice, but "that's how you win wars"?

edblarney 10y ago
1) " he wants to strengthen the [non-existent] libel laws, so that "press can't get away with lies about me"?" The press has called him out for his lies - but they have also blatantly lied about him - and others. There is nothing 'totalitarian' about being able to sue someone for printing lies. 2) You're blaming me for having 'alternative facts' when you're inventing them? The video indicates that 'campaign trail' Trump indicated that he was pro-life - because he was asked. (Of course, his whole life before that he was pro-choice, but to get GOP votes, he had to have this position publicly). But in the very video you offered as 'evidence' - he didn't at all indicate he'd be legislating on the issue. In fact - he said it would be decided in the courts. So a president indicating that issues 'decided in the courts' is now a 'Hitler totalitarian'? Just today, on Charlie Rose - the leftist PBS commentators were indicating that he's made no real indication of anything related to social justice. He did not mention 'abortion' in any of his policy docs, nor during any of his major speeches. I'd argue you're making up facts if you think Trump has any plans to press the abortion issue in any meaningful way. There will be zero legislation. But it doesn't matter - there's nothing at all in Trump's outlined policies that hint at 'totalitarianism'. Nothing. Obama murdered American citizens without a trial via drone strikes - and oversaw a massive expansion of the surveillance state. Those are 'scary totalitarian' things. And I don't even like Trump.
- corin_ 10y ago
  > I'd argue you're making up facts if you think Trump has any plans to press the abortion issue in any meaningful way. There will be zero legislation. He literally already has signed an executive order about it. 'Donald Trump has signed an executive order to ban federal money going to international groups which perform or provide information on abortions. 'The US president's order shows he "wants to stand up for all Americans, including the unborn," his press secretary Sean Spicer said.' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38724063 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38724063
  - vedranm 10y ago
    He should have done that. There is absolutely no reason why other people should pay for someone's abortions.