4 ms·

It's like the Linux subsystem on Windows, but the other way around. :-)

danieldk 10y ago
With the exception that the Windows Subsystem for Linux can just rely on the opensource glibc et al. So, they basically 'only'[1] have to implement the syscall interface of the Linux kernel. They do not have to do any work to reimplement all the core Linux libraries in a compatible way. Wine has a much harder task. Since the common Windows libraries are closed source and non-redistributable, the Wine project basically has to reimplement every API/ABI that Windows provides. This is a much larger and harder project. It would be a nice gesture of Microsoft if they released some of the core Windows libraries as open source. But of course, that's not going to happen. [1] This is of course much harder than it sounds.
- vidarh 10y ago
  > But of course, that's not going to happen. A few years ago, I'd have agreed with you. I used to be a card-carrying Microsoft hater for many years. And I still agree that the chances of that hapening are small, but given Microsofts changes over the last few years and the stream of open source releases, who knows any more...
  - danieldk 10y ago
    Oh, I think it is extremely likely that, assuming no major leadership changes, Microsoft will open parts of Windows. But I think that they'd follow the macOS model - open the kernel and parts of the low-level user land. Enough to make small embedded systems in Windows, make developers happy with low-level profiling capabilities, and receiving more external contributions. I don't think they will open source things Windows in a constellation where people could start making Windows distributions (which could lead to large incompatibilities) or run GUI apps on Linux or Windows.
  - untoreh 10y ago
    everything they have open sourced has been developer oriented, nothing really in the realm of users applications and gaming. So I am doubtful, to say the least, that they will help wine in any shape or form in the foreseeable future.
- general_ai 10y ago
  Yes, the covered surface is much larger. Frankly I don't get why MS insists on keeping Windows closed source. I get why you'd want to keep something others might be able to easily reuse closed source, but I don't get why Windows developers don't get to see Windows source code. In fact, having worked with Linux extensively for the past decade, I don't think I'd be comfortable doing serious work on a system where I don't have source code for debugging and documentation.

With the exception that the Windows Subsystem for Linux can just rely on the opensource glibc et al. So, they basically 'only'[1] have to implement the syscall interface of the Linux kernel. They do not have to do any work to reimplement all the core Linux libraries in a compatible way. Wine has a much harder task. Since the common Windows libraries are closed source and non-redistributable, the Wine project basically has to reimplement every API/ABI that Windows provides. This is a much larger and harder project. It would be a nice gesture of Microsoft if they released some of the core Windows libraries as open source. But of course, that's not going to happen. [1] This is of course much harder than it sounds.

vidarh 10y ago
> But of course, that's not going to happen. A few years ago, I'd have agreed with you. I used to be a card-carrying Microsoft hater for many years. And I still agree that the chances of that hapening are small, but given Microsofts changes over the last few years and the stream of open source releases, who knows any more...
- danieldk 10y ago
  Oh, I think it is extremely likely that, assuming no major leadership changes, Microsoft will open parts of Windows. But I think that they'd follow the macOS model - open the kernel and parts of the low-level user land. Enough to make small embedded systems in Windows, make developers happy with low-level profiling capabilities, and receiving more external contributions. I don't think they will open source things Windows in a constellation where people could start making Windows distributions (which could lead to large incompatibilities) or run GUI apps on Linux or Windows.
- untoreh 10y ago
  everything they have open sourced has been developer oriented, nothing really in the realm of users applications and gaming. So I am doubtful, to say the least, that they will help wine in any shape or form in the foreseeable future.
general_ai 10y ago
Yes, the covered surface is much larger. Frankly I don't get why MS insists on keeping Windows closed source. I get why you'd want to keep something others might be able to easily reuse closed source, but I don't get why Windows developers don't get to see Windows source code. In fact, having worked with Linux extensively for the past decade, I don't think I'd be comfortable doing serious work on a system where I don't have source code for debugging and documentation.