6 ms·

And a falling asleep as soon as a better clown takes control. Trump is marginally worse in content but infinitely worse in presentation. I mean ffs Obama care w

by korrach 10y ago

And a falling asleep as soon as a better clown takes control. Trump is marginally worse in content but infinitely worse in presentation. I mean ffs Obama care was a heritage foundation proposal and that's his shining achievement, it would be like Lincoln abolishing slavery by buying all the slaves and then making them work to pay off their freedom.

ctchocula 10y ago
According to [1], it's similar to a Republican bill from the 1990s, but was not a Heritage Foundation proposal. > More hard-line senators such as Phil Gramm, R-Texas, House Republicans and the Heritage Foundation saw the Chafee bill as an unacceptable compromise. [1] http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/nov/15/ellen-qualls/aca-gop-health-care-plan-1993/ http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/nov/15/...
jdavis703 10y ago
I think you're seeing two pieces of outrage over Trump. The first is the predictable liberal outrage: he's proposing policy that conflicts with what liberals want. Then there's the anger and fear from what appears to be fascist, authorities tendencies in Trump. That's one reason why a President Pence doesn't scare me (and apparently others who are calling for Trump's impeachment). Sure Pence won't work for liberal interests, but at the same time I don't believe he'll be actively working to gut non-partisan areas such as a free press, due process, a free and fair voting process, etc.
- VickBear 10y ago
  Where is Trump actively working to gut free press, due process, and a free and fair voting process? Can you share sources with those claims?
  - tempestn 10y ago
    One example of Trump acting against free press was his refusal to answer a CNN reporter's question because he didn't like their coverage of the golden showers thing. That said, parent didn't say Trump is already doing all these things; they said that people fear he will, based on his actions and statements so far.
    - VickBear 10y ago
      Most presidents do that if a network is attacking him. Obama shunned Fox News a bit as well. It is all 'politics' to be fair. True at saying the people fear he will, but the fear is really bases on nothing and out-of-context quotes.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - pg314 10y ago
    On his efforts to undermine a free press, just a couple that come to mind: - he threatened legal action against the NYT [1] - he said he would 'open up those libel laws' [2] - he lies about falling subscription numbers at the 'failing NYT' [3] - in his first press conference in the White House he attacked a reporter as 'fake news', and refused to answer questions by CNN [4] - he tweets [5] incorrect ratings numbers about Fox vs CNN, calling CNN 'fake news'. - he's been singling out and attacking/mocking individual reporters [6], [7] All these actions are efforts to undermine and discredit the free press. They should be alarming to anybody who cares about the US democracy. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/14/us/politics/donald-trump-lawsuit-threat.html?_r=0 https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/14/us/politics/donald-trump-... [2] http://www.politico.com/blogs/on-media/2016/02/donald-trump-libel-laws-219866 http://www.politico.com/blogs/on-media/2016/02/donald-trump-... [3] http://fortune.com/2016/11/17/trump-new-york-times-subscriptions/ http://fortune.com/2016/11/17/trump-new-york-times-subscript... [4] http://uk.businessinsider.com/president-elect-donald-trump-calls-out-news-reporter-during-press-conference-cnn-buzzfeed-2017-1?r=US&IR=T http://uk.businessinsider.com/president-elect-donald-trump-c... [5] https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/824078417213747200 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/82407841721374720... [6] http://fortune.com/2016/11/03/donald-trump-katy-tur/ http://fortune.com/2016/11/03/donald-trump-katy-tur/ [7] http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/11/26/donald-trump-mocks-reporter-with-disability-berman-sot-ac.cnn http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/11/26/donald-trump-mocks-r...
    - masondixon 10y ago
      [2] Talk is cheap. Honestly, what do you think is going to happen? And in 4 years when we look back, if it doesn't happen - what will you think? [3] How is it a lie? > is losing thousands of subscribers You interpret this as net subscriber count to suit your narrative. Now if the NYT lost subscribers during the election which they almost certainly did then the first part of the statement is literally correct. Now the "because" phrase implies causation of "poor coverage". This would be difficult to work out unless the NYT had an exit survey and that data was public. Without information, Trump is inferring that this is a reason. So if 1000 people left because of poor coverage, his statement is still literally correct. So I do not understand how you can say it is a "lie" when the statement is "literally" correct. If you wanted to say that it is "incorrect" then you must argue for your interpretation based on relevance. If you wanted to say "vague" then you can also say that. It seems very common place to call everything a "lie" these days, when there is never enough information to evaluate the factuality of it. Modern "fact-checking" is a scary thing because depending on how you want to define things, you can "prove" any statement true or false how you like. This is a very scary thing. [5] FOX 8.7M vs CNN 2.6M [7] didn't happen. That is fake news.

by korrach 10y ago

ctchocula 10y ago

According to [1], it's similar to a Republican bill from the 1990s, but was not a Heritage Foundation proposal. > More hard-line senators such as Phil Gramm, R-Texas, House Republicans and the Heritage Foundation saw the Chafee bill as an unacceptable compromise. [1] http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/nov/15/ellen-qualls/aca-gop-health-care-plan-1993/ http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/nov/15/...

jdavis703 10y ago

I think you're seeing two pieces of outrage over Trump. The first is the predictable liberal outrage: he's proposing policy that conflicts with what liberals want. Then there's the anger and fear from what appears to be fascist, authorities tendencies in Trump. That's one reason why a President Pence doesn't scare me (and apparently others who are calling for Trump's impeachment). Sure Pence won't work for liberal interests, but at the same time I don't believe he'll be actively working to gut non-partisan areas such as a free press, due process, a free and fair voting process, etc.

VickBear 10y ago
Where is Trump actively working to gut free press, due process, and a free and fair voting process? Can you share sources with those claims?
- tempestn 10y ago
  One example of Trump acting against free press was his refusal to answer a CNN reporter's question because he didn't like their coverage of the golden showers thing. That said, parent didn't say Trump is already doing all these things; they said that people fear he will, based on his actions and statements so far.
  - VickBear 10y ago
    Most presidents do that if a network is attacking him. Obama shunned Fox News a bit as well. It is all 'politics' to be fair. True at saying the people fear he will, but the fear is really bases on nothing and out-of-context quotes.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- pg314 10y ago
  On his efforts to undermine a free press, just a couple that come to mind: - he threatened legal action against the NYT [1] - he said he would 'open up those libel laws' [2] - he lies about falling subscription numbers at the 'failing NYT' [3] - in his first press conference in the White House he attacked a reporter as 'fake news', and refused to answer questions by CNN [4] - he tweets [5] incorrect ratings numbers about Fox vs CNN, calling CNN 'fake news'. - he's been singling out and attacking/mocking individual reporters [6], [7] All these actions are efforts to undermine and discredit the free press. They should be alarming to anybody who cares about the US democracy. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/14/us/politics/donald-trump-lawsuit-threat.html?_r=0 https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/14/us/politics/donald-trump-... [2] http://www.politico.com/blogs/on-media/2016/02/donald-trump-libel-laws-219866 http://www.politico.com/blogs/on-media/2016/02/donald-trump-... [3] http://fortune.com/2016/11/17/trump-new-york-times-subscriptions/ http://fortune.com/2016/11/17/trump-new-york-times-subscript... [4] http://uk.businessinsider.com/president-elect-donald-trump-calls-out-news-reporter-during-press-conference-cnn-buzzfeed-2017-1?r=US&IR=T http://uk.businessinsider.com/president-elect-donald-trump-c... [5] https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/824078417213747200 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/82407841721374720... [6] http://fortune.com/2016/11/03/donald-trump-katy-tur/ http://fortune.com/2016/11/03/donald-trump-katy-tur/ [7] http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/11/26/donald-trump-mocks-reporter-with-disability-berman-sot-ac.cnn http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/11/26/donald-trump-mocks-r...
  - masondixon 10y ago
    [2] Talk is cheap. Honestly, what do you think is going to happen? And in 4 years when we look back, if it doesn't happen - what will you think? [3] How is it a lie? > is losing thousands of subscribers You interpret this as net subscriber count to suit your narrative. Now if the NYT lost subscribers during the election which they almost certainly did then the first part of the statement is literally correct. Now the "because" phrase implies causation of "poor coverage". This would be difficult to work out unless the NYT had an exit survey and that data was public. Without information, Trump is inferring that this is a reason. So if 1000 people left because of poor coverage, his statement is still literally correct. So I do not understand how you can say it is a "lie" when the statement is "literally" correct. If you wanted to say that it is "incorrect" then you must argue for your interpretation based on relevance. If you wanted to say "vague" then you can also say that. It seems very common place to call everything a "lie" these days, when there is never enough information to evaluate the factuality of it. Modern "fact-checking" is a scary thing because depending on how you want to define things, you can "prove" any statement true or false how you like. This is a very scary thing. [5] FOX 8.7M vs CNN 2.6M [7] didn't happen. That is fake news.