6 ms·

What's wrong with a hat you can knit at home? It's an effective symbol.

gukov 10y ago
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/156315793671/battle-of-the-hats http://blog.dilbert.com/post/156315793671/battle-of-the-hats
sergiotapia 10y ago
It's a terribly ineffective symbol: http://blog.dilbert.com/post/156315793671/battle-of-the-hats http://blog.dilbert.com/post/156315793671/battle-of-the-hats
- nkozyra 10y ago
  The argument posited here is not that it's "terribly ineffective" but that Scott Adams - someone naturally inclined against such causes and demonstrations - doesn't "get it." (His words)
- dllthomas 10y ago
  > Women are “owning” pink to rob it of its power to brand them as the so-called weaker sex. https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2009/dec/12/pinkstinks-the-power-of-pink https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2009/dec/12/pinkstin... > The reason is that pink, being a more decided and stronger colour, is more suitable for the boy
- mverwijs 10y ago
  "So pink is not a fighting/protesting color if you want to keep the base energized." I like Scott Adams, but this is silly. The 'N' word is not something to get energized over either, and neither is the 'Q' word. But those examples he ignores even though he mentions them himself earlier. Another example: When the Dutch started their war of independence from Spain, the freedomfighters (terrorists?) called themselves 'Geus', derived from the french word 'gueux'. It means 'beggar', the lowest of social statuses. We turned 'Geus' into being a hero. Same could happen to the color pink. So stop knit-picking (pun!) and join the fight.
- WA 10y ago
  Every blog post of Scott Adams: "Trump is a master persuader and everything he does is on purpose. I know because I'm a master persuader, too. Here's proof for his flawless persuasion technique (an anecdote follows). Here's more proof, because one proof isn't enough (another anecdote). Because I understand Trump and predicted his election, this is proof that I am really a master persuader. So now go ahead and buy my book and my app." I read quite a bit of Scott Adams blog and truth is: He didn't predict anything. He is a comedian. He could've spinned every outcome of the election in any direction in hindsight. He is in for maximum outrage and controversy, because that drives traffic and clicks and comments and ultimately, he makes money off it. In his book, he even says that he did some pranks that lasted for years and he only did it for the lulz. This is exactly the same. If you think Scott Adams explains it all, you're being played.
beloch 10y ago
Flip the gender. Would you respect a bunch of dickheads marching around D.C.?
- fixxer 10y ago
  Lol. You're only going to confuse them.
- mrbrowning 10y ago
  Unsurprisingly, the answer to "would you react the same way if a totally different thing happened in a totally different context?" is: no.
  - flukus 10y ago
    It's not a totally different thing, it's the same thing with male genitalia instead of female. We don't know if the context would be totally different or not.
    - mrbrowning 10y ago
      It's not a totally different thing, it's the same thing with me driving on the left side of the road instead of the right. We don't know if this would cause horrific, fiery tangles of flesh and steel or not.
      - rokosbasilisk 10y ago
        This is reasoning is a great example why democrats have lost the working class. We all know if men marched with dicks on ther heads in washington they would be laughed and imo rightfully so.
        mattnewton 10y ago
        And we are arguing that it's not relevant. Men are treated differently in our society, dicks have a different connotation, etc. This is a great example of how simple metaphors strip important nuance.
vixen99 10y ago
https://blogs.harvard.edu/philg/2017/01/21/why-youll-get-your-next-electronic-device-from-asia/ https://blogs.harvard.edu/philg/2017/01/21/why-youll-get-you... 'For every hour that an American spent knitting a hat . . .'
- rconti 10y ago
  >Finally, the march here in Boston seems to have proved Donald Trump correct regarding the incompetence of U.S. local, state, and federal government. Despite soaking up 40-50 percent of GDP, the government couldn’t adapt to the forecast demand for transportation today by, e.g., adding extra trains. Even a stopped clock....
  - dsfyu404ed 10y ago
    You, I and every other person who's ever lived in MA know that the MA gov't is beyond dysfunctional. Expecting them to lean on the MBTA or any other entity to get shit done when necessary is like asking for a utopia.
    - eli_gottlieb 10y ago
      >You, I and every other person who's ever lived in MA know that the MA gov't is beyond dysfunctional. Well, except that the MBTA keeps running, laws are enforced, we have decent public schools, and we don't all have lead poisoning -- a few things we've got over, say, Michigan.
legodt 10y ago
I and a lot of other progressives take issue with it because it is trans-exclusionary and continues the long tradition of mainstream feminist demonstrations or expressions being explicitly for a white, cisgendered audience. I think OP was being mysoginistic and wasn't thinking this, but there is criticism on the left of the symbol as well. That said, now is not the time to start infighting with people just starting to become politically aware/active. Most of the marchers have never done anything political before so mistakes/naivety are to be expected
- mattnewton 10y ago
  The hats were meant more as a symbol of feminine solidarity and to reclaim the word pussy though right? It's not trying to be anatomically correct, and afaict doesn't inheriently exclude trans people any more than it excludes progressive mens issues or the black lives matters movement. I am honestly asking from a position of near total ignorance. edit: Is it just that it's more a missed opportunity to pick a more inclusive symbol?
  - legodt 10y ago
    You're not wrong, but there is more context. There is a near inexhaustible list of feminist art that defines womanhood as an anatomical feature or set of features, and seeing this March that is ostensibly for all women be so tone deaf to this existing fault in the feminist community shows a real lack of understanding of what it takes to truly be intersectional. This is what makes the symbol exclusionary to non-binary or transgendered women, it's continuation of a trend of exclusion. During second wave feminism, this was so common a phrase grew out of it- TERF, Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist. A prominent example is Gloria Steinem. For decades, the gender-nonconforming have been written out or excluded from the feminist movement at large, and this was a major opportunity to unify everyone for possibly the first time. A more inclusive symbol could have been chosen. Q: The hats were meant more as a symbol of feminine solidarity...? A: The solidarity excluded a major group that has historically been discriminated against even by progressive causes
    - 10y ago

gukov 10y ago

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/156315793671/battle-of-the-hats http://blog.dilbert.com/post/156315793671/battle-of-the-hats

sergiotapia 10y ago

It's a terribly ineffective symbol: http://blog.dilbert.com/post/156315793671/battle-of-the-hats http://blog.dilbert.com/post/156315793671/battle-of-the-hats

nkozyra 10y ago
The argument posited here is not that it's "terribly ineffective" but that Scott Adams - someone naturally inclined against such causes and demonstrations - doesn't "get it." (His words)
dllthomas 10y ago
> Women are “owning” pink to rob it of its power to brand them as the so-called weaker sex. https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2009/dec/12/pinkstinks-the-power-of-pink https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2009/dec/12/pinkstin... > The reason is that pink, being a more decided and stronger colour, is more suitable for the boy
mverwijs 10y ago
"So pink is not a fighting/protesting color if you want to keep the base energized." I like Scott Adams, but this is silly. The 'N' word is not something to get energized over either, and neither is the 'Q' word. But those examples he ignores even though he mentions them himself earlier. Another example: When the Dutch started their war of independence from Spain, the freedomfighters (terrorists?) called themselves 'Geus', derived from the french word 'gueux'. It means 'beggar', the lowest of social statuses. We turned 'Geus' into being a hero. Same could happen to the color pink. So stop knit-picking (pun!) and join the fight.
WA 10y ago
Every blog post of Scott Adams: "Trump is a master persuader and everything he does is on purpose. I know because I'm a master persuader, too. Here's proof for his flawless persuasion technique (an anecdote follows). Here's more proof, because one proof isn't enough (another anecdote). Because I understand Trump and predicted his election, this is proof that I am really a master persuader. So now go ahead and buy my book and my app." I read quite a bit of Scott Adams blog and truth is: He didn't predict anything. He is a comedian. He could've spinned every outcome of the election in any direction in hindsight. He is in for maximum outrage and controversy, because that drives traffic and clicks and comments and ultimately, he makes money off it. In his book, he even says that he did some pranks that lasted for years and he only did it for the lulz. This is exactly the same. If you think Scott Adams explains it all, you're being played.

beloch 10y ago

Flip the gender. Would you respect a bunch of dickheads marching around D.C.?

fixxer 10y ago
Lol. You're only going to confuse them.
mrbrowning 10y ago
Unsurprisingly, the answer to "would you react the same way if a totally different thing happened in a totally different context?" is: no.
- flukus 10y ago
  It's not a totally different thing, it's the same thing with male genitalia instead of female. We don't know if the context would be totally different or not.
  - mrbrowning 10y ago
    It's not a totally different thing, it's the same thing with me driving on the left side of the road instead of the right. We don't know if this would cause horrific, fiery tangles of flesh and steel or not.
    - rokosbasilisk 10y ago
      This is reasoning is a great example why democrats have lost the working class. We all know if men marched with dicks on ther heads in washington they would be laughed and imo rightfully so.
      - mattnewton 10y ago
        And we are arguing that it's not relevant. Men are treated differently in our society, dicks have a different connotation, etc. This is a great example of how simple metaphors strip important nuance.

vixen99 10y ago

https://blogs.harvard.edu/philg/2017/01/21/why-youll-get-your-next-electronic-device-from-asia/ https://blogs.harvard.edu/philg/2017/01/21/why-youll-get-you... 'For every hour that an American spent knitting a hat . . .'

rconti 10y ago
>Finally, the march here in Boston seems to have proved Donald Trump correct regarding the incompetence of U.S. local, state, and federal government. Despite soaking up 40-50 percent of GDP, the government couldn’t adapt to the forecast demand for transportation today by, e.g., adding extra trains. Even a stopped clock....
- dsfyu404ed 10y ago
  You, I and every other person who's ever lived in MA know that the MA gov't is beyond dysfunctional. Expecting them to lean on the MBTA or any other entity to get shit done when necessary is like asking for a utopia.
  - eli_gottlieb 10y ago
    >You, I and every other person who's ever lived in MA know that the MA gov't is beyond dysfunctional. Well, except that the MBTA keeps running, laws are enforced, we have decent public schools, and we don't all have lead poisoning -- a few things we've got over, say, Michigan.

legodt 10y ago

I and a lot of other progressives take issue with it because it is trans-exclusionary and continues the long tradition of mainstream feminist demonstrations or expressions being explicitly for a white, cisgendered audience. I think OP was being mysoginistic and wasn't thinking this, but there is criticism on the left of the symbol as well. That said, now is not the time to start infighting with people just starting to become politically aware/active. Most of the marchers have never done anything political before so mistakes/naivety are to be expected

mattnewton 10y ago
The hats were meant more as a symbol of feminine solidarity and to reclaim the word pussy though right? It's not trying to be anatomically correct, and afaict doesn't inheriently exclude trans people any more than it excludes progressive mens issues or the black lives matters movement. I am honestly asking from a position of near total ignorance. edit: Is it just that it's more a missed opportunity to pick a more inclusive symbol?
- legodt 10y ago
  You're not wrong, but there is more context. There is a near inexhaustible list of feminist art that defines womanhood as an anatomical feature or set of features, and seeing this March that is ostensibly for all women be so tone deaf to this existing fault in the feminist community shows a real lack of understanding of what it takes to truly be intersectional. This is what makes the symbol exclusionary to non-binary or transgendered women, it's continuation of a trend of exclusion. During second wave feminism, this was so common a phrase grew out of it- TERF, Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist. A prominent example is Gloria Steinem. For decades, the gender-nonconforming have been written out or excluded from the feminist movement at large, and this was a major opportunity to unify everyone for possibly the first time. A more inclusive symbol could have been chosen. Q: The hats were meant more as a symbol of feminine solidarity...? A: The solidarity excluded a major group that has historically been discriminated against even by progressive causes
  - 10y ago