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Please don't give an app a 1 star review just because they ask for a review. Apple and Android have made ratings incredibly important, and the vast majority of

by scosman 10y ago

Please don't give an app a 1 star review just because they ask for a review. Apple and Android have made ratings incredibly important, and the vast majority of happy users never take the time to review. You get some happy users rating, and a disproportionate number of unhappy users. Asking people (at an appropriate time) is the only way to level the field. We've had a few 5.0 releases of our iOS app, but usually a few silly 1 star reviews make that impossible and knock us down to 4.5. Too many of those are "uggg, don't ask me to review, 1 star". Secondly, the 3rd items you list is actually a dark pattern. If you are going to ask users to review, let them be honest. Directing 5 stars to app store and 4 or fewer to an internal system is gaming the system.

eridius 10y ago
It's not gaming the system. If the user is unhappy, leaving a review won't make them happy. Providing support via some other mechanism to try and fix their issue, that's what makes them happy. If the user is already happy, they don't need support. But maybe they'd like to leave a review to tell other people that they're happy.
- Rex206 10y ago
  The ratings are not for you, or the customer leaving it. They are for other customers. The problem is, you think something is for you, that is not for you, and you are asking for everyone to behave like it is for you, and you are telling them that, if they don't treat it like it is for you, that you don't want them as a customer. Fair enough, if that's the way you feel, but if that's really what you want ... put it on the app page, not some off-store forum. I question your sincerity.
  - eridius 10y ago
    Reviews are for the customers, yes. But if a customer has a problem, leaving a bad review does not help that customer. And if it's a problem that can be easily fixed, it doesn't help other customers either. Directing people with problems to internal support is unambiguously a good thing. If that customer's issue can be resolved, that's the best solution all around. And if it can't be resolved, well, the user can still go leave a bad review if they want to.
flukus 10y ago
It sounds like you think the rating system is there for developers, it isn't. Those one star reviews because you're nagging your clients is good for me as a user because it's an indication I don't want to use your app.
mikeash 10y ago
When an app nags me for a review, it really gets in the way and hinders my usage of it. A bad review is a totally legitimate response to that. If this is your only solution to biased reviews, then you have no solution, you just have a way to move the problem around some. If you don't want silly one-star reviews complaining about the prompt, don't interrupt people when they're trying to get something done.
- fattire 10y ago
  Wow, you sound like a very busy person doing important things.
  - mikeash 10y ago
    It's a minor inconvenience, and my retaliation is in proportion to that.
    - metafunctor 10y ago
      If it's a "minor inconvenience", shouldn't you rate the app, say, 3 or 4 stars if you otherwise enjoy it?
      - mikeash 10y ago
        Maybe. On the other hand, it's an honest reflection of how I feel at the moment. Maybe I could put in some effort to figure out a broader view, but on the other hand, why put in effort to help people who don't value my time?
    - fattire 10y ago
      That you feel the need to "retaliate" over what you deem a minor inconvenience says it all.
      - mikeash 10y ago
        What does it say, that I'm occasionally petty when people waste my time? I certainly can't argue with that.
justinclift 10y ago
> Please don't give an app a 1 star review just because they ask for a review. Perhaps don't pop up things begging for reviews? There doesn't seem to be any way of turning it off ("Disable app review requests") for people, thus these kind of user responses. :/
- prawn 10y ago
  As mentioned further up, it's brutally difficult without anything like this. The App Store shows ratings for only the current version by default so after you slave over each upgrade, you lose all the great reviews you've carefully collected. Those ratings are critical to your success in an already difficult marketplace. Almost no one goes out of their way to review your app, so the majority of reviews you'll get are disgruntled people, often with unfair or unrelated issues.
  - ajmurmann 10y ago
    I understand that that is a bad position for developers to be in, but is that the user's problem? Also assuming users showing this behaviour are evenly distributed across apps, didn't this end up not mattering?
    - prawn 10y ago
      It becomes the users' problem when app development becomes unsustainable due to serious difficulties like this. If you're a good developer playing a clean game, you will lose out to more aggressive developers. Personally I don't think it ends up not mattering because you get better results with the dark pattern people have outlined - ask how they feel about the app, then route positive people to review, or negative people to a feedback form. Just sucks when someone rates your entire app 1* because of a single, small decision made, despite you having made great decisions at every other point.
    - jclardy 10y ago
      It is a problem because in the end developers will just move to the next big platform. Right now Apple and Google essentially charge 30% just for card processing and distribution. Discoverability is no longer a benifit of the App Store. The problem is that anything other than small, one trick apps are unsustainable. Look at Sketch for example - a perfect app for the iPad form factor but it doesn't exist because the App Store economy sucks. The thing is it isn't just discoverability, but there are way more problems to deal with. Especially in terms of customer service. As a dev you get no info from a purchase of your app unless you mainuallu collect it inside your app. Have an upset customer and want to refund them? You can't. Want to discount an existing user for a new paid version? It is a super awkward process with app bundles. Want to give out a coupon code for a new product to existing users of another? Nope, can't do that.
pbarnes_1 10y ago
The people responding to you don't understand that without asking for reviews, your app will just die. Apple needs to stop nuking reviews/stars on every release (give us the option!), then we'd stop asking for reviews.
- mikeash 10y ago
  We understand, we just don't care.
  - jclardy 10y ago
    You think you don't care, but look at your App Store purchase history from two or more years ago and see what is still around.
    - mikeash 10y ago
      I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Are you saying that I really do care, because it helps apps I like to use to survive?
- flukus 10y ago
  The survival of your app is not my concern. If apple want a vibrant ecosystem of apps then they can make the changes, but as a user it's not my responsibility.
- cynix 10y ago
  Apps that beg for reviews deserve to die.
- titanix2 10y ago
  There is two tabs in the app store, one for "Current Version" the other for "All Versions" so it is not true that Apple erase previous ratings.
- Rex206 10y ago
  Review nags will not save an otherwise anonymous app. Your blame is misplaced. By not listening to your customers, yes, your app will suffer, as will many businesses that are indifferent to the wants of their customers.
nodamage 10y ago
I've found that many "prompted" reviews are generally of low quality and lack detail, and essentially flood the listing with useless information. (Who cares if there are 500 reviews each saying "Good app!", that tells you basically nothing.) In 7 years I've never prompted for a review in any of my apps. Users that write reviews do so genuinely, and if they are happy, they often leave extremely detailed feedback explaining why, and that is much more valuable to me.
- k-mcgrady 10y ago
  It's not the review that's important, it's the * rating that shows in search results etc.
cynix 10y ago
If an app doesn't provide a "Don't ask me again" button, or even worse, continue to ask for reviews even after I've tapped "Don't ask me again", you can bet I'll leave a 1-star review. If you don't want 1-star reviews, don't beg for reviews. Ask once and leave it be.
SomeCallMeTim 10y ago
>Secondly, the 3rd items you list is actually a dark pattern. If you are going to ask users to review, let them be honest. Directing 5 stars to app store and 4 or fewer to an internal system is gaming the system. Sorry, but that particular pattern is 100% appropriate, IMO. * If someone has a problem with my app, I absolutely don't want to send them to the reviews where they'll post a "tech support review". Yes Apple finally got off their collective behinds and caught up to Google's Play Store in that developers can respond now to reviews, but it's still a terrible venue for helping people with an app. Send them to somewhere that they can get real help, and turn their mediocre to poor review into a positive review. * If someone has a problem with an app, the odds are roughly 7x greater that they will post a bad review. People who are frustrated are just more likely to seek out the review process to vent their spleens. There's absolutely no reason for me to attempt to be "fair" by reminding everyone to review my app; the haters will find the review button entirely on their own without my assistance. I might send 4-5 stars to the app store, but if they rate it 3 or less, then damn straight I'm going to ask them what's wrong and not have them rate it. That's just common sense, not gaming the system.
- MagnumOpus 10y ago
  > That's just common sense, not gaming the system. I bet about 95% of people would disagree with you. This is a very dark pattern, few people are engaging in it, and if you told me non-anonymously that your app does it I would put you and your app on my blacklist of "not to be trusted, ever".
  - SomeCallMeTim 10y ago
    And I'd be happy to not have customers who are so extreme with their viewpoints, to be honest. If you have that kind of extreme negative reaction and would rate an app one star for asking you for help in promoting an app that they otherwise like, then I'm sure you'd be likely to express other entitled attitudes about how the app should and shouldn't work. People like that tend to be a support nightmare. I'm not really anonymous here anyway. Check my profile. It points at my company web page. Feel free to never download any of my games. Please. FWIW none of my games follow this pattern. But apps live and die based on ratings. I've had people rate my app one star simply because it was a paid version, and the Google return policy at the time was 15 minutes. So the review? "I can't judge whether this app is good in 15 minutes, so I'm rating it one star in protest." [1] My fledgling, otherwise 5-star app that never even had a single review ask, with its measly ~5 reviews or so, now was pulled down to 4 stars because of one jerk. Who likely downloaded the app to pirate it. Yes, he almost certainly pirated the paid version; it showed up shortly thereafter on pirate sites. And his complaint was specious since I had a free demo you could also download. We're not talking about voting for a politician here. We're talking about encouraging the people who like an app to vote for it; as I mentioned, the people who hate it already are motivated to slam it. So you're telling me that it's a dark pattern to encourage people who like your app to rate it, and to help the people who are having trouble with your app? Then you have zero empathy or understanding of the life of an indie app developer. [1] EDIT: Actually, my current app under development is explicitly designed to not care about ranking in the various stores. And it will be Cordova (or similar) based, so I won't need to "reset" the reviews when I push patches to the app. But I don't promise that I won't occasionally ask for a review, so please feel free to blacklist my company and not download it anyway.

by scosman 10y ago

eridius 10y ago

It's not gaming the system. If the user is unhappy, leaving a review won't make them happy. Providing support via some other mechanism to try and fix their issue, that's what makes them happy. If the user is already happy, they don't need support. But maybe they'd like to leave a review to tell other people that they're happy.

Rex206 10y ago
The ratings are not for you, or the customer leaving it. They are for other customers. The problem is, you think something is for you, that is not for you, and you are asking for everyone to behave like it is for you, and you are telling them that, if they don't treat it like it is for you, that you don't want them as a customer. Fair enough, if that's the way you feel, but if that's really what you want ... put it on the app page, not some off-store forum. I question your sincerity.
- eridius 10y ago
  Reviews are for the customers, yes. But if a customer has a problem, leaving a bad review does not help that customer. And if it's a problem that can be easily fixed, it doesn't help other customers either. Directing people with problems to internal support is unambiguously a good thing. If that customer's issue can be resolved, that's the best solution all around. And if it can't be resolved, well, the user can still go leave a bad review if they want to.

flukus 10y ago

It sounds like you think the rating system is there for developers, it isn't. Those one star reviews because you're nagging your clients is good for me as a user because it's an indication I don't want to use your app.

mikeash 10y ago

When an app nags me for a review, it really gets in the way and hinders my usage of it. A bad review is a totally legitimate response to that. If this is your only solution to biased reviews, then you have no solution, you just have a way to move the problem around some. If you don't want silly one-star reviews complaining about the prompt, don't interrupt people when they're trying to get something done.

fattire 10y ago
Wow, you sound like a very busy person doing important things.
- mikeash 10y ago
  It's a minor inconvenience, and my retaliation is in proportion to that.
  - metafunctor 10y ago
    If it's a "minor inconvenience", shouldn't you rate the app, say, 3 or 4 stars if you otherwise enjoy it?
    - mikeash 10y ago
      Maybe. On the other hand, it's an honest reflection of how I feel at the moment. Maybe I could put in some effort to figure out a broader view, but on the other hand, why put in effort to help people who don't value my time?
  - fattire 10y ago
    That you feel the need to "retaliate" over what you deem a minor inconvenience says it all.
    - mikeash 10y ago
      What does it say, that I'm occasionally petty when people waste my time? I certainly can't argue with that.

justinclift 10y ago

> Please don't give an app a 1 star review just because they ask for a review. Perhaps don't pop up things begging for reviews? There doesn't seem to be any way of turning it off ("Disable app review requests") for people, thus these kind of user responses. :/

prawn 10y ago
As mentioned further up, it's brutally difficult without anything like this. The App Store shows ratings for only the current version by default so after you slave over each upgrade, you lose all the great reviews you've carefully collected. Those ratings are critical to your success in an already difficult marketplace. Almost no one goes out of their way to review your app, so the majority of reviews you'll get are disgruntled people, often with unfair or unrelated issues.
- ajmurmann 10y ago
  I understand that that is a bad position for developers to be in, but is that the user's problem? Also assuming users showing this behaviour are evenly distributed across apps, didn't this end up not mattering?
  - prawn 10y ago
    It becomes the users' problem when app development becomes unsustainable due to serious difficulties like this. If you're a good developer playing a clean game, you will lose out to more aggressive developers. Personally I don't think it ends up not mattering because you get better results with the dark pattern people have outlined - ask how they feel about the app, then route positive people to review, or negative people to a feedback form. Just sucks when someone rates your entire app 1* because of a single, small decision made, despite you having made great decisions at every other point.
  - jclardy 10y ago
    It is a problem because in the end developers will just move to the next big platform. Right now Apple and Google essentially charge 30% just for card processing and distribution. Discoverability is no longer a benifit of the App Store. The problem is that anything other than small, one trick apps are unsustainable. Look at Sketch for example - a perfect app for the iPad form factor but it doesn't exist because the App Store economy sucks. The thing is it isn't just discoverability, but there are way more problems to deal with. Especially in terms of customer service. As a dev you get no info from a purchase of your app unless you mainuallu collect it inside your app. Have an upset customer and want to refund them? You can't. Want to discount an existing user for a new paid version? It is a super awkward process with app bundles. Want to give out a coupon code for a new product to existing users of another? Nope, can't do that.

pbarnes_1 10y ago

The people responding to you don't understand that without asking for reviews, your app will just die. Apple needs to stop nuking reviews/stars on every release (give us the option!), then we'd stop asking for reviews.

mikeash 10y ago
We understand, we just don't care.
- jclardy 10y ago
  You think you don't care, but look at your App Store purchase history from two or more years ago and see what is still around.
  - mikeash 10y ago
    I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Are you saying that I really do care, because it helps apps I like to use to survive?
flukus 10y ago
The survival of your app is not my concern. If apple want a vibrant ecosystem of apps then they can make the changes, but as a user it's not my responsibility.
cynix 10y ago
Apps that beg for reviews deserve to die.
titanix2 10y ago
There is two tabs in the app store, one for "Current Version" the other for "All Versions" so it is not true that Apple erase previous ratings.
Rex206 10y ago
Review nags will not save an otherwise anonymous app. Your blame is misplaced. By not listening to your customers, yes, your app will suffer, as will many businesses that are indifferent to the wants of their customers.

nodamage 10y ago

I've found that many "prompted" reviews are generally of low quality and lack detail, and essentially flood the listing with useless information. (Who cares if there are 500 reviews each saying "Good app!", that tells you basically nothing.) In 7 years I've never prompted for a review in any of my apps. Users that write reviews do so genuinely, and if they are happy, they often leave extremely detailed feedback explaining why, and that is much more valuable to me.

k-mcgrady 10y ago
It's not the review that's important, it's the * rating that shows in search results etc.

cynix 10y ago

If an app doesn't provide a "Don't ask me again" button, or even worse, continue to ask for reviews even after I've tapped "Don't ask me again", you can bet I'll leave a 1-star review. If you don't want 1-star reviews, don't beg for reviews. Ask once and leave it be.

SomeCallMeTim 10y ago

>Secondly, the 3rd items you list is actually a dark pattern. If you are going to ask users to review, let them be honest. Directing 5 stars to app store and 4 or fewer to an internal system is gaming the system. Sorry, but that particular pattern is 100% appropriate, IMO. * If someone has a problem with my app, I absolutely don't want to send them to the reviews where they'll post a "tech support review". Yes Apple finally got off their collective behinds and caught up to Google's Play Store in that developers can respond now to reviews, but it's still a terrible venue for helping people with an app. Send them to somewhere that they can get real help, and turn their mediocre to poor review into a positive review. * If someone has a problem with an app, the odds are roughly 7x greater that they will post a bad review. People who are frustrated are just more likely to seek out the review process to vent their spleens. There's absolutely no reason for me to attempt to be "fair" by reminding everyone to review my app; the haters will find the review button entirely on their own without my assistance. I might send 4-5 stars to the app store, but if they rate it 3 or less, then damn straight I'm going to ask them what's wrong and not have them rate it. That's just common sense, not gaming the system.

MagnumOpus 10y ago
> That's just common sense, not gaming the system. I bet about 95% of people would disagree with you. This is a very dark pattern, few people are engaging in it, and if you told me non-anonymously that your app does it I would put you and your app on my blacklist of "not to be trusted, ever".
- SomeCallMeTim 10y ago
  And I'd be happy to not have customers who are so extreme with their viewpoints, to be honest. If you have that kind of extreme negative reaction and would rate an app one star for asking you for help in promoting an app that they otherwise like, then I'm sure you'd be likely to express other entitled attitudes about how the app should and shouldn't work. People like that tend to be a support nightmare. I'm not really anonymous here anyway. Check my profile. It points at my company web page. Feel free to never download any of my games. Please. FWIW none of my games follow this pattern. But apps live and die based on ratings. I've had people rate my app one star simply because it was a paid version, and the Google return policy at the time was 15 minutes. So the review? "I can't judge whether this app is good in 15 minutes, so I'm rating it one star in protest." [1] My fledgling, otherwise 5-star app that never even had a single review ask, with its measly ~5 reviews or so, now was pulled down to 4 stars because of one jerk. Who likely downloaded the app to pirate it. Yes, he almost certainly pirated the paid version; it showed up shortly thereafter on pirate sites. And his complaint was specious since I had a free demo you could also download. We're not talking about voting for a politician here. We're talking about encouraging the people who like an app to vote for it; as I mentioned, the people who hate it already are motivated to slam it. So you're telling me that it's a dark pattern to encourage people who like your app to rate it, and to help the people who are having trouble with your app? Then you have zero empathy or understanding of the life of an indie app developer. [1] EDIT: Actually, my current app under development is explicitly designed to not care about ranking in the various stores. And it will be Cordova (or similar) based, so I won't need to "reset" the reviews when I push patches to the app. But I don't promise that I won't occasionally ask for a review, so please feel free to blacklist my company and not download it anyway.