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Being anti-science isn't the only way to suck. Just before leaving office, Obama expanded domestic mass surveillance, for one example of many. The US is an ol

Being anti-science isn't the only way to suck. Just before leaving office, Obama expanded domestic mass surveillance, for one example of many. The US is an oligarchy. EDIT: Just realized you may be talking about "no substantial effect", in which case I agree with you that there are substantial differences. Neither party is of, for, or by the people though.

openasocket 10y ago
> The US is an oligarchy. OK, I see this statement all the time and I just don't understand it. How can you say that when Trump, a man with exactly zero political experience, beat out a lifelong politician and wife of a President, not to mention the half dozen qualified candidates in the primary. Obama beat Clinton in the primary and McCain in the general when his only political experience he had was in the state senate.
- oculusthrift 10y ago
  i mean hes still a billionaire funded by billionaires. youd have a point of bernie won...
- yarou 10y ago
  You don't see how a supposedly "anti-establishment" candidate who happens to be a billionaire (and is surrounded in his cabinet by other billionaires) doesn't reek of a system of crony capitalism and oligarchy? If so, I have a few butt coins and a blockchain to sell you.
  - battlebot 10y ago
    America's forefathers were all wealthy men, it did not mean they were oligarchs. Was George Washington an oligarch? Jefferson? Madison?
    - cmrdporcupine 10y ago
      Yes.
      - battlebot 10y ago
        Then why did they give the country to the people, then? Why did they make it democratic when they had the golden opportunity to create a monarchy or some other form of totalitarianism.
        cmrdporcupine 10y ago
        It would be a stretch to say they gave it to the people. They 'gave' it to their own class of people. White, male, land owners and the emergent bourgeoisie/industrialists. Universal suffrage was a _long_ way off, and arguably never fully arrived in the U.S. due to ongoing racial politics.
  - openasocket 10y ago
    yeah, I almost didn't include that, but I think he still counts because he ran in on a wave of rampant populism, bowling over the entire Republican establishment in the process. He's absolutely an example of crony capitalism, but not necessarily an oligarchy. At the very least, not the same oligarchy as the political establishment.
  - jack9 10y ago
    > doesn't reek of a system of crony capitalism and oligarchy? It reeks of political corruption. Money talks and Trump talked the loudest AND was populist. As a politician, you can't go wrong pandering to the largest groups (e.g. california). Clinton's promises didn't really make any headlines and were saddled by any comparison to Obama's failures to deliver whatever people imagined he was going to do for them.
- sien 10y ago
  Obama was US Senator for Illinois from 2005-2008. He was an Illinois Senator from 1997-2004.

openasocket 10y ago

> The US is an oligarchy. OK, I see this statement all the time and I just don't understand it. How can you say that when Trump, a man with exactly zero political experience, beat out a lifelong politician and wife of a President, not to mention the half dozen qualified candidates in the primary. Obama beat Clinton in the primary and McCain in the general when his only political experience he had was in the state senate.

oculusthrift 10y ago
i mean hes still a billionaire funded by billionaires. youd have a point of bernie won...
yarou 10y ago
You don't see how a supposedly "anti-establishment" candidate who happens to be a billionaire (and is surrounded in his cabinet by other billionaires) doesn't reek of a system of crony capitalism and oligarchy? If so, I have a few butt coins and a blockchain to sell you.
- battlebot 10y ago
  America's forefathers were all wealthy men, it did not mean they were oligarchs. Was George Washington an oligarch? Jefferson? Madison?
  - cmrdporcupine 10y ago
    Yes.
    - battlebot 10y ago
      Then why did they give the country to the people, then? Why did they make it democratic when they had the golden opportunity to create a monarchy or some other form of totalitarianism.
      - cmrdporcupine 10y ago
        It would be a stretch to say they gave it to the people. They 'gave' it to their own class of people. White, male, land owners and the emergent bourgeoisie/industrialists. Universal suffrage was a _long_ way off, and arguably never fully arrived in the U.S. due to ongoing racial politics.
- openasocket 10y ago
  yeah, I almost didn't include that, but I think he still counts because he ran in on a wave of rampant populism, bowling over the entire Republican establishment in the process. He's absolutely an example of crony capitalism, but not necessarily an oligarchy. At the very least, not the same oligarchy as the political establishment.
- jack9 10y ago
  > doesn't reek of a system of crony capitalism and oligarchy? It reeks of political corruption. Money talks and Trump talked the loudest AND was populist. As a politician, you can't go wrong pandering to the largest groups (e.g. california). Clinton's promises didn't really make any headlines and were saddled by any comparison to Obama's failures to deliver whatever people imagined he was going to do for them.
sien 10y ago
Obama was US Senator for Illinois from 2005-2008. He was an Illinois Senator from 1997-2004.