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> The only people in government that seem to agree with them also happen to be bigoted, anti-science, authoritarians. I don't support Trump, but the first thi

> The only people in government that seem to agree with them also happen to be bigoted, anti-science, authoritarians. I don't support Trump, but the first thing in understanding the movement against the DNC and the establishment is understanding that it is not primarily rooted in bigotry, anti-science or authoritarianism. If you stop there, you are selling yourself short on understanding current world politics. If you want a nugget of something to stimulate your mind: Hillary's primary foreign policy objective was to escalate the Syrian proxy war with Russia.(1) Is it really that surprising? Bush's primary foreign policy objective was to start a war, primarily in the middle east and centered Iraq. Actually, the Bush administration desperately tried (and succeeded in mainstream media) to hide the fact that Iraq was at the same time, desperately trying to prove they did not have chemical weapons and offering to bring inspectors and sign the OPCW. No such weapons were every found (what a surprise). Also, some of the perceived bigotry is perhaps actually perpetrated by people who believe they are fighting against bigotry. For example, right now Blacks are admitted to med school with an average MCAT score around 61%, while Whites and Asians are admitted with an average of about 91%.(3) So it's not as black and white as your remarkable viewpoint. 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE45OsLNVAQ&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE45OsLNVAQ&feature=youtu.be 2 - https://theintercept.com/2016/12/15/if-donald-trump-is-so-upset-about-iraq-wmd-lies-why-is-he-hiring-john-bolton/ https://theintercept.com/2016/12/15/if-donald-trump-is-so-up... 3 - https://www.aei.org/publication/acceptance-rates-at-us-medical-schools-in-2015-reveal-ongoing-discrimination-against-asian-americans-and-whites/ https://www.aei.org/publication/acceptance-rates-at-us-medic...

jasonlaramburu 10y ago
The fact that affirmative action exists for med school admissions does not prove or disprove the assertion that Trump's movement is rooted in bigotry, anti-science or authoritarianism.
- wallace_f 10y ago
  I think you can understand the point though but you tossed it to the side and made your own. Edit: As Elon Musk wrote in his support for Rex Tillerson: 'he should be given the benefit of the doubt unless proven otherwise.' Assuming an entire movement of half of the nation is rooted in bigotry, etc, is at best naive and insulting. Give people the benefit of the doubt and try to understand where they're coming from. Divisiveness leads to increased conflict. Everyone who supported that movement (and I'm not one of them), or aspects of it, Elon Musk included, is not a bigot, anti-scientist, whatever convenient thought criminal you want them to be.
deleted 10y ago
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ojbyrne 10y ago
Perhaps I'm confused but your third link makes no mention of race.
- wallace_f 10y ago
  Sorry wrong link. I fixed it.
wvenable 10y ago
You mis-read the comment you're replying to; you both agree. The US military is the largest "economy" in America. It employees massive numbers of people, it requires a huge amount of industry, and massive connected government contractors to supply everything. The only thing that keeps this engine running is war. It's fundamentally baked into the system and it won't be easily stopped even if there was any political will to stop it (and there isn't).
- wallace_f 10y ago
  Good point, and I can admit that you are right, I misread his comment. He is making a legitimate point about representation in government. I took it to mean: 'all Trump supporters are...' I agree with you about military industrial complex that Eisenhower warned of.
finid 10y ago
For example, right now Blacks are admitted to med school with an average MCAT score around 61%, while Whites and Asians are admitted with an average of about 91%. Bigotry from that group predates Affirmative Action, so don't use that as an argument.
kafkaesq 10y ago
Also, some of the perceived bigotry is perhaps actually perpetrated by people who believe they are fighting against bigotry. For example, right now Blacks are admitted to med school with an average MCAT score around 61%, while Whites and Asians are admitted with an average of about 91%.(3) Aside from the fact that one would have to be more than a bit muddle-headed (or simply lacking perspective and generally naive) to think that there might be some net "anti-bigotry" effect to expect from the Trump administration -- the document you link to doesn't support what you're saying. (It doesn't in any way mention the ethnic background of applicants, or how they scored differently).
- wallace_f 10y ago
  >the document you link to doesn't support what you're saying. (It doesn't in any way mention the ethnic background of applicants, or how they scored differently). Thanks, I linked the wrong tab. I added a link to a different article.
deleted 10y ago
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hackuser 10y ago
The American Enterprise Institute isn't a reliable source. It's a think tank that exists to provide intellectual 'cover' to the political desires of certain conservatives; it's propaganda for intellectuals. That doesn't make your statements wrong, but IMHO it doesn't support them.
- wallace_f 10y ago
  the link is to statistical data. the numbers are reality.
  - hackuser 10y ago
    > the link is to statistical data. the numbers are reality. Statistics are regularly misused to deceive, and that assumes the data is accurate.
    - wallace_f 10y ago
      ok convince me you're right. what is misrepresented in the data I linked to?
      - hackuser 10y ago
        A fair question in a way, but consider that life is too short: * You could post data from %somerandomblogger% or the Russian government, and challenge me to find the flaws. Not a game I'd like to play; find a good source instead. My time is limited; I'm going to stick to information from excellent sources. * One goal of propaganda is to overwhelm and distract your target with misinformation. Attacks are far cheaper than defense; i.e., you can make things up much more quickly than someone can verify them and respond. That's not your goal, but at least sometimes it's AEI's. * AEI could easily create or twist data in ways that would take me all day or longer to unravel. See #2.
        wallace_f 10y ago
        Just because you disagree with someone, it does not mean that they are wrong, or that they are Russian propaganda. You have otherwise shown no basis for your disagreement with the facts outlined in the data you were given than that. I gave you the opportunity to contribute something more and instead you cemented your position this position that you've "already made up your mind."

jasonlaramburu 10y ago

The fact that affirmative action exists for med school admissions does not prove or disprove the assertion that Trump's movement is rooted in bigotry, anti-science or authoritarianism.

wallace_f 10y ago
I think you can understand the point though but you tossed it to the side and made your own. Edit: As Elon Musk wrote in his support for Rex Tillerson: 'he should be given the benefit of the doubt unless proven otherwise.' Assuming an entire movement of half of the nation is rooted in bigotry, etc, is at best naive and insulting. Give people the benefit of the doubt and try to understand where they're coming from. Divisiveness leads to increased conflict. Everyone who supported that movement (and I'm not one of them), or aspects of it, Elon Musk included, is not a bigot, anti-scientist, whatever convenient thought criminal you want them to be.

deleted 10y ago

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ojbyrne 10y ago

Perhaps I'm confused but your third link makes no mention of race.

wallace_f 10y ago
Sorry wrong link. I fixed it.

wvenable 10y ago

You mis-read the comment you're replying to; you both agree. The US military is the largest "economy" in America. It employees massive numbers of people, it requires a huge amount of industry, and massive connected government contractors to supply everything. The only thing that keeps this engine running is war. It's fundamentally baked into the system and it won't be easily stopped even if there was any political will to stop it (and there isn't).

wallace_f 10y ago
Good point, and I can admit that you are right, I misread his comment. He is making a legitimate point about representation in government. I took it to mean: 'all Trump supporters are...' I agree with you about military industrial complex that Eisenhower warned of.

finid 10y ago

For example, right now Blacks are admitted to med school with an average MCAT score around 61%, while Whites and Asians are admitted with an average of about 91%. Bigotry from that group predates Affirmative Action, so don't use that as an argument.

kafkaesq 10y ago

Also, some of the perceived bigotry is perhaps actually perpetrated by people who believe they are fighting against bigotry. For example, right now Blacks are admitted to med school with an average MCAT score around 61%, while Whites and Asians are admitted with an average of about 91%.(3) Aside from the fact that one would have to be more than a bit muddle-headed (or simply lacking perspective and generally naive) to think that there might be some net "anti-bigotry" effect to expect from the Trump administration -- the document you link to doesn't support what you're saying. (It doesn't in any way mention the ethnic background of applicants, or how they scored differently).

wallace_f 10y ago
>the document you link to doesn't support what you're saying. (It doesn't in any way mention the ethnic background of applicants, or how they scored differently). Thanks, I linked the wrong tab. I added a link to a different article.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

hackuser 10y ago

The American Enterprise Institute isn't a reliable source. It's a think tank that exists to provide intellectual 'cover' to the political desires of certain conservatives; it's propaganda for intellectuals. That doesn't make your statements wrong, but IMHO it doesn't support them.

wallace_f 10y ago
the link is to statistical data. the numbers are reality.
- hackuser 10y ago
  > the link is to statistical data. the numbers are reality. Statistics are regularly misused to deceive, and that assumes the data is accurate.
  - wallace_f 10y ago
    ok convince me you're right. what is misrepresented in the data I linked to?
    - hackuser 10y ago
      A fair question in a way, but consider that life is too short: * You could post data from %somerandomblogger% or the Russian government, and challenge me to find the flaws. Not a game I'd like to play; find a good source instead. My time is limited; I'm going to stick to information from excellent sources. * One goal of propaganda is to overwhelm and distract your target with misinformation. Attacks are far cheaper than defense; i.e., you can make things up much more quickly than someone can verify them and respond. That's not your goal, but at least sometimes it's AEI's. * AEI could easily create or twist data in ways that would take me all day or longer to unravel. See #2.
      - wallace_f 10y ago
        Just because you disagree with someone, it does not mean that they are wrong, or that they are Russian propaganda. You have otherwise shown no basis for your disagreement with the facts outlined in the data you were given than that. I gave you the opportunity to contribute something more and instead you cemented your position this position that you've "already made up your mind."