6 ms·

I've been using computers my whole life, and a lot of the magic has been explained away. Wine is a project that continues to astound me. Grats to the Wine team

I've been using computers my whole life, and a lot of the magic has been explained away. Wine is a project that continues to astound me. Grats to the Wine team, this is great!

mrmondo 10y ago
Took the words out of my mouth. It's saved me from having to install complex or insecure VMs or additional machines so many times I can't count. I also enjoy using it to bundle applications usable on Linux and MacOS that otherwise were locked in to windows.
- duozerk 10y ago
  It's also a godsend for gaming on Linux. As long as you take a peek at the wine appdb page for the game you're trying to run beforehand, they usually work great and with pretty good performances. Though granted the games I play tend not to be cutting edge (but for example, Skyrim with a large texture pack and a full, heavy mod conversion such as Enderal works perfectly and with CSMT, with performances roughly equal to Windows).
  - bigbugbag 10y ago
    > It's also a godsend for windows gaming on Linux here FTFY.
    - Skunkleton 10y ago
      Are you implying that having access to Windows games on Linux does not improve gaming on Linux?
      - duozerk 10y ago
        I believe he's saying that gaming on Linux today goes far beyond Wine, given numerous high profile games have been ported to Linux recently (in a large part thanks to Unity and Valve's Steam OS push).
        ldev 10y ago
        Not really far if you count games that sell 1 million+ copies. Right now I'm playing Titanfall 2, Battlefield 1, Forza Horizon 3 and Resident Evil 7. And Hearthstone. Haven't seen a game that I would enjoy released on linux in ages. Even new Doom didn't get a Linux release, id software gave up.
        versteegen 10y ago
        I believe they skipped Linux because Doom uses some Windows-specific DRM. Even the demo is protected by DRM, and it won't work under wine for that reason. So they lost my purchase.
        SSLy 10y ago
        denuvo obfuscation engine has recently been removed from Doom.
        sirtaj 10y ago
        I get the impression they never had much interest in Linux ports in the first place, it was mostly just Carmack's interest in the platform that drove it. But now his attention is elsewhere, so they don't have to bother any more.
    - duozerk 10y ago
      Indeed; thanks. In my defense, there was a time where both of those roughly meant the same thing ;-)
    - djsumdog 10y ago
      I'm pretty amazing at the Humble Bundle (DRM-free) and Steam selections for Linux; not just independent titles but some larger ones too. We've come a long way since Loki ports.
      - vacri 10y ago
        HumbleBundle games for linux have a history of being... suboptimal. Maybe they've improved over the past year, but HB doesn't really have a good method for fixing bugs in releases (unlike Steam).
      - jhasse 10y ago
        Keep in mind that some of them are using libwine ;)
        brak1 10y ago
        I've bought some games (older games from years ago) on gog.com for os x, they were always just running wine
        roblabla 10y ago
        It doesn't really matter if they are though. It means we get "official support" - if something is broken, they are able (and I daresay, maybe even willing !) to look into it.
        baldfat 10y ago
        And DOS-Box. GOG.com Masters of Orion 2 and many older games work great on it.
- dstein64 10y ago
  > "It's saved me from having to install complex or insecure VMs..." Can you elaborate on this? My intuition is that running an application in a VM provides more security than in wine.
  - nix0n 10y ago
    The Linux root is more insulated if your application is in a VM, but running other Windows services broadens the attack surface.
    - mark-r 10y ago
      Any problems running Linux in a VM then Wine within that?
      - farjar 10y ago
        Kind of negates the purpose of even using wine. If your running a windows machine to run a Linux VM then you might as well install straight to Windows and not deal with the underpowered VM
        Arnavion 10y ago
        >If your running a windows machine to run a Linux VM then you might as well install straight to Windows and not deal with the underpowered VM Given the context, I don't believe mark-r was talking about using a Windows host for the Linux VM.
        mark-r 10y ago
        Right, I was talking about Linux under Linux.
        shubb 10y ago
        Also, last time I tried, the virtual graphics cards in the vm were much less powerful than a fully drivered up raw graphics card even on Linux, unless I was doing something wrong?
general_ai 10y ago
It's like the Linux subsystem on Windows, but the other way around. :-)
- danieldk 10y ago
  With the exception that the Windows Subsystem for Linux can just rely on the opensource glibc et al. So, they basically 'only'[1] have to implement the syscall interface of the Linux kernel. They do not have to do any work to reimplement all the core Linux libraries in a compatible way. Wine has a much harder task. Since the common Windows libraries are closed source and non-redistributable, the Wine project basically has to reimplement every API/ABI that Windows provides. This is a much larger and harder project. It would be a nice gesture of Microsoft if they released some of the core Windows libraries as open source. But of course, that's not going to happen. [1] This is of course much harder than it sounds.
  - vidarh 10y ago
    > But of course, that's not going to happen. A few years ago, I'd have agreed with you. I used to be a card-carrying Microsoft hater for many years. And I still agree that the chances of that hapening are small, but given Microsofts changes over the last few years and the stream of open source releases, who knows any more...
    - danieldk 10y ago
      Oh, I think it is extremely likely that, assuming no major leadership changes, Microsoft will open parts of Windows. But I think that they'd follow the macOS model - open the kernel and parts of the low-level user land. Enough to make small embedded systems in Windows, make developers happy with low-level profiling capabilities, and receiving more external contributions. I don't think they will open source things Windows in a constellation where people could start making Windows distributions (which could lead to large incompatibilities) or run GUI apps on Linux or Windows.
    - untoreh 10y ago
      everything they have open sourced has been developer oriented, nothing really in the realm of users applications and gaming. So I am doubtful, to say the least, that they will help wine in any shape or form in the foreseeable future.

I've been using computers my whole life, and a lot of the magic has been explained away. Wine is a project that continues to astound me. Grats to the Wine team, this is great!

mrmondo 10y ago

Took the words out of my mouth. It's saved me from having to install complex or insecure VMs or additional machines so many times I can't count. I also enjoy using it to bundle applications usable on Linux and MacOS that otherwise were locked in to windows.

duozerk 10y ago
It's also a godsend for gaming on Linux. As long as you take a peek at the wine appdb page for the game you're trying to run beforehand, they usually work great and with pretty good performances. Though granted the games I play tend not to be cutting edge (but for example, Skyrim with a large texture pack and a full, heavy mod conversion such as Enderal works perfectly and with CSMT, with performances roughly equal to Windows).
- bigbugbag 10y ago
  > It's also a godsend for windows gaming on Linux here FTFY.
  - Skunkleton 10y ago
    Are you implying that having access to Windows games on Linux does not improve gaming on Linux?
    - duozerk 10y ago
      I believe he's saying that gaming on Linux today goes far beyond Wine, given numerous high profile games have been ported to Linux recently (in a large part thanks to Unity and Valve's Steam OS push).
      - ldev 10y ago
        Not really far if you count games that sell 1 million+ copies. Right now I'm playing Titanfall 2, Battlefield 1, Forza Horizon 3 and Resident Evil 7. And Hearthstone. Haven't seen a game that I would enjoy released on linux in ages. Even new Doom didn't get a Linux release, id software gave up.
        versteegen 10y ago
        I believe they skipped Linux because Doom uses some Windows-specific DRM. Even the demo is protected by DRM, and it won't work under wine for that reason. So they lost my purchase.
        SSLy 10y ago
        denuvo obfuscation engine has recently been removed from Doom.
        sirtaj 10y ago
        I get the impression they never had much interest in Linux ports in the first place, it was mostly just Carmack's interest in the platform that drove it. But now his attention is elsewhere, so they don't have to bother any more.
  - duozerk 10y ago
    Indeed; thanks. In my defense, there was a time where both of those roughly meant the same thing ;-)
  - djsumdog 10y ago
    I'm pretty amazing at the Humble Bundle (DRM-free) and Steam selections for Linux; not just independent titles but some larger ones too. We've come a long way since Loki ports.
    - vacri 10y ago
      HumbleBundle games for linux have a history of being... suboptimal. Maybe they've improved over the past year, but HB doesn't really have a good method for fixing bugs in releases (unlike Steam).
    - jhasse 10y ago
      Keep in mind that some of them are using libwine ;)
      - brak1 10y ago
        I've bought some games (older games from years ago) on gog.com for os x, they were always just running wine
      - roblabla 10y ago
        It doesn't really matter if they are though. It means we get "official support" - if something is broken, they are able (and I daresay, maybe even willing !) to look into it.
      - baldfat 10y ago
        And DOS-Box. GOG.com Masters of Orion 2 and many older games work great on it.
dstein64 10y ago
> "It's saved me from having to install complex or insecure VMs..." Can you elaborate on this? My intuition is that running an application in a VM provides more security than in wine.
- nix0n 10y ago
  The Linux root is more insulated if your application is in a VM, but running other Windows services broadens the attack surface.
  - mark-r 10y ago
    Any problems running Linux in a VM then Wine within that?
    - farjar 10y ago
      Kind of negates the purpose of even using wine. If your running a windows machine to run a Linux VM then you might as well install straight to Windows and not deal with the underpowered VM
      - Arnavion 10y ago
        >If your running a windows machine to run a Linux VM then you might as well install straight to Windows and not deal with the underpowered VM Given the context, I don't believe mark-r was talking about using a Windows host for the Linux VM.
        mark-r 10y ago
        Right, I was talking about Linux under Linux.
      - shubb 10y ago
        Also, last time I tried, the virtual graphics cards in the vm were much less powerful than a fully drivered up raw graphics card even on Linux, unless I was doing something wrong?

general_ai 10y ago

It's like the Linux subsystem on Windows, but the other way around. :-)

danieldk 10y ago
With the exception that the Windows Subsystem for Linux can just rely on the opensource glibc et al. So, they basically 'only'[1] have to implement the syscall interface of the Linux kernel. They do not have to do any work to reimplement all the core Linux libraries in a compatible way. Wine has a much harder task. Since the common Windows libraries are closed source and non-redistributable, the Wine project basically has to reimplement every API/ABI that Windows provides. This is a much larger and harder project. It would be a nice gesture of Microsoft if they released some of the core Windows libraries as open source. But of course, that's not going to happen. [1] This is of course much harder than it sounds.
- vidarh 10y ago
  > But of course, that's not going to happen. A few years ago, I'd have agreed with you. I used to be a card-carrying Microsoft hater for many years. And I still agree that the chances of that hapening are small, but given Microsofts changes over the last few years and the stream of open source releases, who knows any more...
  - danieldk 10y ago
    Oh, I think it is extremely likely that, assuming no major leadership changes, Microsoft will open parts of Windows. But I think that they'd follow the macOS model - open the kernel and parts of the low-level user land. Enough to make small embedded systems in Windows, make developers happy with low-level profiling capabilities, and receiving more external contributions. I don't think they will open source things Windows in a constellation where people could start making Windows distributions (which could lead to large incompatibilities) or run GUI apps on Linux or Windows.
  - untoreh 10y ago
    everything they have open sourced has been developer oriented, nothing really in the realm of users applications and gaming. So I am doubtful, to say the least, that they will help wine in any shape or form in the foreseeable future.