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I think you're implication here is that other languages do handle multiple ownership well. What I think you find in Rust, is that the guarantees you need to mak

I think you're implication here is that other languages do handle multiple ownership well. What I think you find in Rust, is that the guarantees you need to make when using unsafe in these limited situations, are the exact same guarantees you need to make in a language like C or C++. Destroying a circular list takes some thought to make sure you don't double free, same as Rust. Rust just makes those sections of code very explicit and calls your attention to it, while in C you may end up with a segfault, or worse a program that only shows odd bugs during runtime. At least Rust is telling you that you need to put some extra thought in this section.

rbehrends 10y ago
Your assumption seems to be that I'm talking about languages with manual memory management. I'm not; I'm talking about garbage-collected languages, where you get memory safety automatically, regardless of ownership rules. In fact, C++ has some of the same problems that Rust has when it comes to multiple ownership.
- kaoD 10y ago
  Then use https://github.com/Manishearth/rust-gc https://github.com/Manishearth/rust-gc if you're willing to pay the price of a GC (still experimental). Or better, stick to a GC'ed language. If you don't need manual memory management, it's obviously going to be a burden. There are still use cases for manual memory management though, and that's where Rust comes in. Use the right tool for the job.
  - rbehrends 10y ago
    > If you don't need manual memory management, it's obviously going to be a burden. There are still use cases for manual memory management though, and that's where Rust comes in. That's exactly the point that I made in my original comment?
    - kaoD 10y ago
      Sorry, HN isn't great at keeping track who's who on a comment tree.
  - Manishearth 10y ago
    (Please don't use rust-gc, it's more of a proof of concept. I mean, it works, and some folks do use it, but Rc + Weak are probably better options)
- galangalalgol 10y ago
  Does GC imply memory safety? Use after free and dangling references probably can't happen, but I have never heard of a GC supplying cross thread memory safety. The borrow checker does.
  - rbehrends 10y ago
    Memory safety in multi-threaded programs is not a hard problem once you have GC. Eiffel solved it decades ago. The JVM also has a weak form of memory safety; it does not preclude data races, but the VM cannot crash as the result of a data race.

rbehrends 10y ago

Your assumption seems to be that I'm talking about languages with manual memory management. I'm not; I'm talking about garbage-collected languages, where you get memory safety automatically, regardless of ownership rules. In fact, C++ has some of the same problems that Rust has when it comes to multiple ownership.

kaoD 10y ago
Then use https://github.com/Manishearth/rust-gc https://github.com/Manishearth/rust-gc if you're willing to pay the price of a GC (still experimental). Or better, stick to a GC'ed language. If you don't need manual memory management, it's obviously going to be a burden. There are still use cases for manual memory management though, and that's where Rust comes in. Use the right tool for the job.
- rbehrends 10y ago
  > If you don't need manual memory management, it's obviously going to be a burden. There are still use cases for manual memory management though, and that's where Rust comes in. That's exactly the point that I made in my original comment?
  - kaoD 10y ago
    Sorry, HN isn't great at keeping track who's who on a comment tree.
- Manishearth 10y ago
  (Please don't use rust-gc, it's more of a proof of concept. I mean, it works, and some folks do use it, but Rc + Weak are probably better options)
galangalalgol 10y ago
Does GC imply memory safety? Use after free and dangling references probably can't happen, but I have never heard of a GC supplying cross thread memory safety. The borrow checker does.
- rbehrends 10y ago
  Memory safety in multi-threaded programs is not a hard problem once you have GC. Eiffel solved it decades ago. The JVM also has a weak form of memory safety; it does not preclude data races, but the VM cannot crash as the result of a data race.