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Sad thing is a lot of Democrats are collaborators...I worry that democrats can't put up a serious resistance necessary to protect civil liberties: https://thein

Sad thing is a lot of Democrats are collaborators...I worry that democrats can't put up a serious resistance necessary to protect civil liberties: https://theintercept.com/2017/01/23/14-senate-democrats-fall-in-line-behind-trump-cia-pick-who-left-door-open-to-torture/ https://theintercept.com/2017/01/23/14-senate-democrats-fall... also the following statement is false, because he was confirmed as of today: "However, the Senate blocked Mike Pompeo, Trump's nominee for CIA."

TallGuyShort 10y ago
A lot of Democrats were the primary perpetrators no more than a week ago. I've gotten sick of this 8 year cycle in which everyone flips their stance on whether or not a President who is for the most part doing the same things as the one before him is a bad guy or not. It's nice to have the anti-war left back, but I'll miss the small-government conservatives. My guess is the Patriot Act will stick around again but Democrats will be back to hating it.
- jbooth 10y ago
  I think one could say that this isn't just another typical 8 year cycle. As far as "primary perpetrators a week ago", I mean I'd have preferred that Obama do more to protect civil liberties but he is the guy who pardoned Chelsea Manning, tried to close Gitmo, and god knows what else he pushed back against. Running the executive branch means that by default you're the primary perpetrator, but there are degrees of perpetrating here.
  - TallGuyShort 10y ago
    Yes, I also would have rather he pushed back instead of literally signing an executive order this month allowing freer information sharing between agencies, some of which were granted all sorts of "emergency" powers in laws he renewed. * commuted sentence - still in jail, was in jail this whole time, still no accountability that I see for things leaked by Manning and Snowden, and alarmingly high collateral damage rates in drone killings. Yeah, yeah, so different from Bush. Definitely not another typical 8 year cycle. Everyone's acting like Trump suddenly has unlimited power to be a tyrant while Obama couldn't do things like this just because those mean old white men got in his way. He expanded executive power plenty and didn't use it to keep very many campaign promises.
- r_smart 10y ago
  Didn't Obama just sign an 11th hour executive order expanding the CIA's ability to access the NSA's data on the citizenry? I'm right there with you on the 8 year cycle. I despised GWB, as many did, and voted for Obama with full support, only to watch as he continued the very erosion of civil liberties that I held against Bush. And yet, in the echo chamber of my social circle, the condemnations, the rants, the protests, had all gone silent. It seemed much the same too in the larger picture of the culture with the sources I looked to for information. Silence and rapture where previously there was outrage.
at-fates-hands 10y ago
The funny thing is that people are absolutely losing their minds now that Trump is in office which is completely overblown considering those same people freaking out didn't do much when Obama was in office, but somehow now feel the country is some emergency peril? Whatever. It's been in peril for the last eight years and probably eight years before that. That suddenly people just came to their senses is a little too late. Surely these same people HAD to believe at some point a Republican would be in the White House (I mean fuck people, in a two party system it's a 50/50 chance) and that person would probably want to expand mass surveillance, right? I'm sorry but I don't have much sympathy for people who thought electing a Democrat would absolve them of mass surveillance and protect their civil liberties.
- JoeAltmaier 10y ago
  part of it was, that all previous Presidents were capable. They had policy experience; they were public servants for a large portion of their lifetimes. Now we have, for the first time in history, a rampant capitalist businessman of questionable history. His first acts are to jam the executive branch with others like himself (including friends and family). Its alarming at many levels, not just security.
  - TallGuyShort 10y ago
    I'd be worried about him dropping tens of thousands of bombs on other countries without congressional declaration of war. Or about killing civilians with drones and a 90% collateral death rate. Or about getting picked via some system other than a direct popular vote. Or about expanding executive powers for broad surveillance. Or about accepting very questionable sources of financing with conflicts of interest. Trouble is, those are all things Democrats defended for their 2008 / 2012 president or their 2016 candidate. I don't like Trump, but the Democrats are being enormous hypocrites here. Silly games as usual.
  - JustSomeNobody 10y ago
    > part of it was, that all previous Presidents were capable. Is this true? I'll have to dig up the history on the previous 40 odd Presidents and see (I honestly don't know). Forgive me, but this just sounds like one of those made up things you read on the internet. Edit: Well if wikipedia can be believed: "1 President had neither served in the military nor elected public office before becoming president: Donald Trump. Trump, instead, was chairman of the Trump Organization, and a reality television star."

TallGuyShort 10y ago

A lot of Democrats were the primary perpetrators no more than a week ago. I've gotten sick of this 8 year cycle in which everyone flips their stance on whether or not a President who is for the most part doing the same things as the one before him is a bad guy or not. It's nice to have the anti-war left back, but I'll miss the small-government conservatives. My guess is the Patriot Act will stick around again but Democrats will be back to hating it.

jbooth 10y ago
I think one could say that this isn't just another typical 8 year cycle. As far as "primary perpetrators a week ago", I mean I'd have preferred that Obama do more to protect civil liberties but he is the guy who pardoned Chelsea Manning, tried to close Gitmo, and god knows what else he pushed back against. Running the executive branch means that by default you're the primary perpetrator, but there are degrees of perpetrating here.
- TallGuyShort 10y ago
  Yes, I also would have rather he pushed back instead of literally signing an executive order this month allowing freer information sharing between agencies, some of which were granted all sorts of "emergency" powers in laws he renewed. * commuted sentence - still in jail, was in jail this whole time, still no accountability that I see for things leaked by Manning and Snowden, and alarmingly high collateral damage rates in drone killings. Yeah, yeah, so different from Bush. Definitely not another typical 8 year cycle. Everyone's acting like Trump suddenly has unlimited power to be a tyrant while Obama couldn't do things like this just because those mean old white men got in his way. He expanded executive power plenty and didn't use it to keep very many campaign promises.
r_smart 10y ago
Didn't Obama just sign an 11th hour executive order expanding the CIA's ability to access the NSA's data on the citizenry? I'm right there with you on the 8 year cycle. I despised GWB, as many did, and voted for Obama with full support, only to watch as he continued the very erosion of civil liberties that I held against Bush. And yet, in the echo chamber of my social circle, the condemnations, the rants, the protests, had all gone silent. It seemed much the same too in the larger picture of the culture with the sources I looked to for information. Silence and rapture where previously there was outrage.

at-fates-hands 10y ago

The funny thing is that people are absolutely losing their minds now that Trump is in office which is completely overblown considering those same people freaking out didn't do much when Obama was in office, but somehow now feel the country is some emergency peril? Whatever. It's been in peril for the last eight years and probably eight years before that. That suddenly people just came to their senses is a little too late. Surely these same people HAD to believe at some point a Republican would be in the White House (I mean fuck people, in a two party system it's a 50/50 chance) and that person would probably want to expand mass surveillance, right? I'm sorry but I don't have much sympathy for people who thought electing a Democrat would absolve them of mass surveillance and protect their civil liberties.

JoeAltmaier 10y ago
part of it was, that all previous Presidents were capable. They had policy experience; they were public servants for a large portion of their lifetimes. Now we have, for the first time in history, a rampant capitalist businessman of questionable history. His first acts are to jam the executive branch with others like himself (including friends and family). Its alarming at many levels, not just security.
- TallGuyShort 10y ago
  I'd be worried about him dropping tens of thousands of bombs on other countries without congressional declaration of war. Or about killing civilians with drones and a 90% collateral death rate. Or about getting picked via some system other than a direct popular vote. Or about expanding executive powers for broad surveillance. Or about accepting very questionable sources of financing with conflicts of interest. Trouble is, those are all things Democrats defended for their 2008 / 2012 president or their 2016 candidate. I don't like Trump, but the Democrats are being enormous hypocrites here. Silly games as usual.
- JustSomeNobody 10y ago
  > part of it was, that all previous Presidents were capable. Is this true? I'll have to dig up the history on the previous 40 odd Presidents and see (I honestly don't know). Forgive me, but this just sounds like one of those made up things you read on the internet. Edit: Well if wikipedia can be believed: "1 President had neither served in the military nor elected public office before becoming president: Donald Trump. Trump, instead, was chairman of the Trump Organization, and a reality television star."