5 ms·

I'll never understand this. If you want value for money why even look at apple? Never mind nuances like planned obsolescence.

jalfresi 10y ago
I don't want to waste my time dicking around with drivers and other such noise - I want to get on with my tasks. An operating system linked to s fixed set of hardware provides me exactly this. My time is worth far more to me than the cost of a Macbook.
- Girlang 10y ago
  If you don't want to dick with drivers, run Windows. I'm on a Surface Book Pro now. It "just works."
- branchly2 10y ago
  > I want to get on with my tasks. An operating system linked to s fixed set of hardware provides me exactly this. I get the same thing from [ThinkPenguin](https://www.thinkpenguin.com/ https://www.thinkpenguin.com/), though the OS isn't linked to the hardware in any way --- they just choose free-software compatible hw.
- ryanmarsh 10y ago
  This. I'd wager that the entire set of hardware and software tools most of us use to make a year's worth of income could be purchased with two weeks of income (or less). The laptop being the majority of it. That's pretty astounding. So yah, did I just drop ~$2,500 on a new MBP? Yes. Did I enjoy spending it? No, but I also want the thing to "just fucking work" and it's a tiny fraction of my income considering my last Apple laptop lasted me almost 4 years... before I dropped it.
- elbrian 10y ago
  >I don't want to waste my time dicking around with drivers and other such noise Are you implying that PC laptops require you to "dick around with drivers?" If so, you are basing your logic on non-facts. Driver updates have been integrated with Windows Update for at least 5 years, now.
ysr23 10y ago
My 2008 mbp has represented the best VFM of any machine i have owned, I only stopped using it last year. For an x220 that i got off ebay. But my point is that mbps did represent fantastic vfm
otalp 10y ago
Depends on what model. I think the 2017 MacBook and MacBook Pro's are overpriced, but I'd say the MacBook Air post-2012 is still possibly the best laptop on the market for many people. For $999 you now get 8 gigs of RAM, SSD that is faster than most competitors, a trackpad that is better than any competitors', and by quite some distance, the best battery life on any laptop. I get something like 20 hours when I'm reading PDFs or using emacs indoors, and about 12 hours of web browsing. There's less QA issues than most newer laptops with the Air since Apple has been making it for years, and it's still one of the lightest laptops in the field without compromising on too much. The resale value is also higher compared to equivalent laptops because of the 'Apple' brand, so that offsets the buying price to an extent. Coming to the OS, while it's far from perfect, it's not a privacy nightmare like Windows nor a battery drain like Linux. Linux on a desktop is something I like, but on laptops they still suck a lot of battery life compared to MacOS. TL;DR: If your idea of a laptop is a portable device that runs smoothly, handles low to medium level workload and lasts(literally) all day, the Air is a solid pick.
valuearb 10y ago
My current MacBook has over 2,000 hours use. I probably paid an extra $500 to get it over a similar dell, so it's cost me 25 cents an hour more. What did I get for that? 1) The ability to run 3 operating systems, and the best laptop operating system, MacOSX. I mostly run MacOSX, but still write shell scripts, use Unix applications, and occasionally run Windows 10 when I have an application that's not on the Mac, but only under protest because MacOSX is so good. 2) Excellent build quality, I've dropped it numerous times without a chip, crack or problem. 3) Retina screen, high resolution that is easy on my eyes, no tiny fonts or misshapen images. Plus while I have Retina on my main screen I'm coding on two 24 inch monitors connected to it. 4) Magsafe. 5) Excellent ergonomics. Trackpad, keyboard are top notch. 6) Far fewer worries about viruses. 7) Far from being quickly obsolescent, Apple computers retain their value far better and longer than other manufacturers. Mine is three years old and I'm no where near considering replacing it. 8) etc. etc I bill $85 an hour. Has my productivity been enhanced more than 1/4 of 1%? Way more. Have I gotten more work because of the quality of my projects? you betcha. Any professional who requires a computer to do their job should always buy the best possible computer to do it with. The extra cost is trivial in comparison to professional wages, the benefits in higher performance are always easily justifiable. If you work a minimum wage job, sure, get the cheapest computer that meets your needs, that makes sense to.
- PascLeRasc 10y ago
  Yeah, I had done web development for a bit on Windows, but when I got my Macbook 2 years ago it really took off not having to wrestle with cygwin and short battery life. I'm still a student but I have a part-time well-paying job right now that's partially thanks to a great OS and hardware.
- branchless 10y ago
  all laptops are pretty cheap if you have a decent job, I don't think that plays into value for money. I'd go with a cheap dell with linux every time, and if you want it beefed up buy a more expensive dell. I always buy 2nd hand too, way cheaper, fungible as there are so many floating around if you need spare parts it's easy. If you are a graphics designer perhaps retina display matters, as a developer which you also seem to be I don't ever think "wow the font rendering is holding me back". And linux has few viruses etc.

jalfresi 10y ago

I don't want to waste my time dicking around with drivers and other such noise - I want to get on with my tasks. An operating system linked to s fixed set of hardware provides me exactly this. My time is worth far more to me than the cost of a Macbook.

Girlang 10y ago
If you don't want to dick with drivers, run Windows. I'm on a Surface Book Pro now. It "just works."
branchly2 10y ago
> I want to get on with my tasks. An operating system linked to s fixed set of hardware provides me exactly this. I get the same thing from [ThinkPenguin](https://www.thinkpenguin.com/ https://www.thinkpenguin.com/), though the OS isn't linked to the hardware in any way --- they just choose free-software compatible hw.
ryanmarsh 10y ago
This. I'd wager that the entire set of hardware and software tools most of us use to make a year's worth of income could be purchased with two weeks of income (or less). The laptop being the majority of it. That's pretty astounding. So yah, did I just drop ~$2,500 on a new MBP? Yes. Did I enjoy spending it? No, but I also want the thing to "just fucking work" and it's a tiny fraction of my income considering my last Apple laptop lasted me almost 4 years... before I dropped it.
elbrian 10y ago
>I don't want to waste my time dicking around with drivers and other such noise Are you implying that PC laptops require you to "dick around with drivers?" If so, you are basing your logic on non-facts. Driver updates have been integrated with Windows Update for at least 5 years, now.

ysr23 10y ago

My 2008 mbp has represented the best VFM of any machine i have owned, I only stopped using it last year. For an x220 that i got off ebay. But my point is that mbps did represent fantastic vfm

otalp 10y ago

Depends on what model. I think the 2017 MacBook and MacBook Pro's are overpriced, but I'd say the MacBook Air post-2012 is still possibly the best laptop on the market for many people. For $999 you now get 8 gigs of RAM, SSD that is faster than most competitors, a trackpad that is better than any competitors', and by quite some distance, the best battery life on any laptop. I get something like 20 hours when I'm reading PDFs or using emacs indoors, and about 12 hours of web browsing. There's less QA issues than most newer laptops with the Air since Apple has been making it for years, and it's still one of the lightest laptops in the field without compromising on too much. The resale value is also higher compared to equivalent laptops because of the 'Apple' brand, so that offsets the buying price to an extent. Coming to the OS, while it's far from perfect, it's not a privacy nightmare like Windows nor a battery drain like Linux. Linux on a desktop is something I like, but on laptops they still suck a lot of battery life compared to MacOS. TL;DR: If your idea of a laptop is a portable device that runs smoothly, handles low to medium level workload and lasts(literally) all day, the Air is a solid pick.

valuearb 10y ago

My current MacBook has over 2,000 hours use. I probably paid an extra $500 to get it over a similar dell, so it's cost me 25 cents an hour more. What did I get for that? 1) The ability to run 3 operating systems, and the best laptop operating system, MacOSX. I mostly run MacOSX, but still write shell scripts, use Unix applications, and occasionally run Windows 10 when I have an application that's not on the Mac, but only under protest because MacOSX is so good. 2) Excellent build quality, I've dropped it numerous times without a chip, crack or problem. 3) Retina screen, high resolution that is easy on my eyes, no tiny fonts or misshapen images. Plus while I have Retina on my main screen I'm coding on two 24 inch monitors connected to it. 4) Magsafe. 5) Excellent ergonomics. Trackpad, keyboard are top notch. 6) Far fewer worries about viruses. 7) Far from being quickly obsolescent, Apple computers retain their value far better and longer than other manufacturers. Mine is three years old and I'm no where near considering replacing it. 8) etc. etc I bill $85 an hour. Has my productivity been enhanced more than 1/4 of 1%? Way more. Have I gotten more work because of the quality of my projects? you betcha. Any professional who requires a computer to do their job should always buy the best possible computer to do it with. The extra cost is trivial in comparison to professional wages, the benefits in higher performance are always easily justifiable. If you work a minimum wage job, sure, get the cheapest computer that meets your needs, that makes sense to.

PascLeRasc 10y ago
Yeah, I had done web development for a bit on Windows, but when I got my Macbook 2 years ago it really took off not having to wrestle with cygwin and short battery life. I'm still a student but I have a part-time well-paying job right now that's partially thanks to a great OS and hardware.
branchless 10y ago
all laptops are pretty cheap if you have a decent job, I don't think that plays into value for money. I'd go with a cheap dell with linux every time, and if you want it beefed up buy a more expensive dell. I always buy 2nd hand too, way cheaper, fungible as there are so many floating around if you need spare parts it's easy. If you are a graphics designer perhaps retina display matters, as a developer which you also seem to be I don't ever think "wow the font rendering is holding me back". And linux has few viruses etc.