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This talk expresses many of my concerns with desktop & laptop hardware over the last few years. Recently however, Apple has changed their hardware design philo

by 0xADADA 10y ago

This talk expresses many of my concerns with desktop & laptop hardware over the last few years. Recently however, Apple has changed their hardware design philosophy from a fairly open platform to a more proprietary and disposable one. They’ve eliminated the ability to change or upgrade components. The 3rd generation MacBooks have a battery that is glued in place, the memory is soldered directly to the logic board. Later models would come with the hard drive soldered down as well. Lyle Wiens of iFixIt, said it best in 2012 > "When Apple dropped the MacBook Air to $999 in 2010 to match the price point of the MacBook, they gave users a clear choice: the thin, light, and un-upgradeable MacBook Air or the heavier, longer lasting, [upgradable], more rugged, and more powerful MacBook. Same price, two very different products. At the time, I wasn’t very happy with the non-upgradeable RAM on the MacBook Air, but I respected that Apple had given their users a choice. It was up to us: Did we want a machine that would be stuck with 2GB of RAM forever? Would we support laptops that required replacement every year or two as applications required more memory and batteries atrophied?" Consumers overwhelmingly voted yes, and the Air grew to take 40 percent of Apple’s notebook sales by the end of 2010. This sort of vendor-lock down and planned-obsolecence has bothered me to such an extent that the next laptop I buy won’t be Apple hardware. Meanwhile, Apple has secured an oligopoly in the market, they have such a dominant position with hardware manufacturers that they seem to be squeezing competitors out of getting access to top-quality components (or their competitors don’t care about quality). These manufacturers seem to be building computers with “Apples’ scraps and leftovers”. Put simply; I don’t see any manufacturers building laptops at the same level of quality that Apple does, and yet, I can’t buy a product that is so tightly controlled, and designed to be obsolete in two years.

branchless 10y ago
I'll never understand this. If you want value for money why even look at apple? Never mind nuances like planned obsolescence.
- jalfresi 10y ago
  I don't want to waste my time dicking around with drivers and other such noise - I want to get on with my tasks. An operating system linked to s fixed set of hardware provides me exactly this. My time is worth far more to me than the cost of a Macbook.
  - Girlang 10y ago
    If you don't want to dick with drivers, run Windows. I'm on a Surface Book Pro now. It "just works."
  - branchly2 10y ago
    > I want to get on with my tasks. An operating system linked to s fixed set of hardware provides me exactly this. I get the same thing from [ThinkPenguin](https://www.thinkpenguin.com/ https://www.thinkpenguin.com/), though the OS isn't linked to the hardware in any way --- they just choose free-software compatible hw.
  - ryanmarsh 10y ago
    This. I'd wager that the entire set of hardware and software tools most of us use to make a year's worth of income could be purchased with two weeks of income (or less). The laptop being the majority of it. That's pretty astounding. So yah, did I just drop ~$2,500 on a new MBP? Yes. Did I enjoy spending it? No, but I also want the thing to "just fucking work" and it's a tiny fraction of my income considering my last Apple laptop lasted me almost 4 years... before I dropped it.
  - elbrian 10y ago
    >I don't want to waste my time dicking around with drivers and other such noise Are you implying that PC laptops require you to "dick around with drivers?" If so, you are basing your logic on non-facts. Driver updates have been integrated with Windows Update for at least 5 years, now.
- ysr23 10y ago
  My 2008 mbp has represented the best VFM of any machine i have owned, I only stopped using it last year. For an x220 that i got off ebay. But my point is that mbps did represent fantastic vfm
- otalp 10y ago
  Depends on what model. I think the 2017 MacBook and MacBook Pro's are overpriced, but I'd say the MacBook Air post-2012 is still possibly the best laptop on the market for many people. For $999 you now get 8 gigs of RAM, SSD that is faster than most competitors, a trackpad that is better than any competitors', and by quite some distance, the best battery life on any laptop. I get something like 20 hours when I'm reading PDFs or using emacs indoors, and about 12 hours of web browsing. There's less QA issues than most newer laptops with the Air since Apple has been making it for years, and it's still one of the lightest laptops in the field without compromising on too much. The resale value is also higher compared to equivalent laptops because of the 'Apple' brand, so that offsets the buying price to an extent. Coming to the OS, while it's far from perfect, it's not a privacy nightmare like Windows nor a battery drain like Linux. Linux on a desktop is something I like, but on laptops they still suck a lot of battery life compared to MacOS. TL;DR: If your idea of a laptop is a portable device that runs smoothly, handles low to medium level workload and lasts(literally) all day, the Air is a solid pick.
- valuearb 10y ago
  My current MacBook has over 2,000 hours use. I probably paid an extra $500 to get it over a similar dell, so it's cost me 25 cents an hour more. What did I get for that? 1) The ability to run 3 operating systems, and the best laptop operating system, MacOSX. I mostly run MacOSX, but still write shell scripts, use Unix applications, and occasionally run Windows 10 when I have an application that's not on the Mac, but only under protest because MacOSX is so good. 2) Excellent build quality, I've dropped it numerous times without a chip, crack or problem. 3) Retina screen, high resolution that is easy on my eyes, no tiny fonts or misshapen images. Plus while I have Retina on my main screen I'm coding on two 24 inch monitors connected to it. 4) Magsafe. 5) Excellent ergonomics. Trackpad, keyboard are top notch. 6) Far fewer worries about viruses. 7) Far from being quickly obsolescent, Apple computers retain their value far better and longer than other manufacturers. Mine is three years old and I'm no where near considering replacing it. 8) etc. etc I bill $85 an hour. Has my productivity been enhanced more than 1/4 of 1%? Way more. Have I gotten more work because of the quality of my projects? you betcha. Any professional who requires a computer to do their job should always buy the best possible computer to do it with. The extra cost is trivial in comparison to professional wages, the benefits in higher performance are always easily justifiable. If you work a minimum wage job, sure, get the cheapest computer that meets your needs, that makes sense to.
  - PascLeRasc 10y ago
    Yeah, I had done web development for a bit on Windows, but when I got my Macbook 2 years ago it really took off not having to wrestle with cygwin and short battery life. I'm still a student but I have a part-time well-paying job right now that's partially thanks to a great OS and hardware.
  - branchless 10y ago
    all laptops are pretty cheap if you have a decent job, I don't think that plays into value for money. I'd go with a cheap dell with linux every time, and if you want it beefed up buy a more expensive dell. I always buy 2nd hand too, way cheaper, fungible as there are so many floating around if you need spare parts it's easy. If you are a graphics designer perhaps retina display matters, as a developer which you also seem to be I don't ever think "wow the font rendering is holding me back". And linux has few viruses etc.
valuearb 10y ago
Computers are on the end of a long road to becoming appliances. Apple has been at the forefront of this. My Macbook Pro is glued together, hard or impossible to upgrade, etc. It's also been an excellent laptop, impervious to being dropped (many times) and is far from obsolete 3 years after I purchased it. Were I to resell it now I'd still get most of my purchase cost back.
Girlang 10y ago
The quality of "gaming" laptops has increased substantially over the past few years. (I guess the games are getting older and can afford more!) Look at the Razer Blade for example: decent battery life an decent specs in a small size.
elbrian 10y ago
>Put simply; I don’t see any manufacturers building laptops at the same level of quality that Apple does, and yet, I can’t buy a product that is so tightly controlled, and designed to be obsolete in two years. Dell has been making laptops of equal or better quality for a couple years, now. The XPS line is absolutely stunning.
- TurboHaskal 10y ago
  Not quite. I have a 2015 13" Macbook Pro and returned an XPS 13 to buy a Thinkpad x250. As much as I want to root for the underdogs I have to admit that Apple is on a league of its own.
  - elbrian 10y ago
    Would you care to elaborate a bit? In terms of build quality, the 2015+ XPS line is comparable (at least) to any Mac laptop offering.
    - PascLeRasc 10y ago
      Screen hinge is a big deal to me. My '14 rMBP can be opened while on a desk with one hand and the screen never moves even during furious typing, and I really like that. I work with someone who just got a 13" XPS and his screen wobbles quite a bit.
      - elbrian 10y ago
        I am replying to you on an XPS 13 (model # 9350) and there is zero wobble.

by 0xADADA 10y ago

branchless 10y ago

I'll never understand this. If you want value for money why even look at apple? Never mind nuances like planned obsolescence.

jalfresi 10y ago
I don't want to waste my time dicking around with drivers and other such noise - I want to get on with my tasks. An operating system linked to s fixed set of hardware provides me exactly this. My time is worth far more to me than the cost of a Macbook.
- Girlang 10y ago
  If you don't want to dick with drivers, run Windows. I'm on a Surface Book Pro now. It "just works."
- branchly2 10y ago
  > I want to get on with my tasks. An operating system linked to s fixed set of hardware provides me exactly this. I get the same thing from [ThinkPenguin](https://www.thinkpenguin.com/ https://www.thinkpenguin.com/), though the OS isn't linked to the hardware in any way --- they just choose free-software compatible hw.
- ryanmarsh 10y ago
  This. I'd wager that the entire set of hardware and software tools most of us use to make a year's worth of income could be purchased with two weeks of income (or less). The laptop being the majority of it. That's pretty astounding. So yah, did I just drop ~$2,500 on a new MBP? Yes. Did I enjoy spending it? No, but I also want the thing to "just fucking work" and it's a tiny fraction of my income considering my last Apple laptop lasted me almost 4 years... before I dropped it.
- elbrian 10y ago
  >I don't want to waste my time dicking around with drivers and other such noise Are you implying that PC laptops require you to "dick around with drivers?" If so, you are basing your logic on non-facts. Driver updates have been integrated with Windows Update for at least 5 years, now.
ysr23 10y ago
My 2008 mbp has represented the best VFM of any machine i have owned, I only stopped using it last year. For an x220 that i got off ebay. But my point is that mbps did represent fantastic vfm
otalp 10y ago
Depends on what model. I think the 2017 MacBook and MacBook Pro's are overpriced, but I'd say the MacBook Air post-2012 is still possibly the best laptop on the market for many people. For $999 you now get 8 gigs of RAM, SSD that is faster than most competitors, a trackpad that is better than any competitors', and by quite some distance, the best battery life on any laptop. I get something like 20 hours when I'm reading PDFs or using emacs indoors, and about 12 hours of web browsing. There's less QA issues than most newer laptops with the Air since Apple has been making it for years, and it's still one of the lightest laptops in the field without compromising on too much. The resale value is also higher compared to equivalent laptops because of the 'Apple' brand, so that offsets the buying price to an extent. Coming to the OS, while it's far from perfect, it's not a privacy nightmare like Windows nor a battery drain like Linux. Linux on a desktop is something I like, but on laptops they still suck a lot of battery life compared to MacOS. TL;DR: If your idea of a laptop is a portable device that runs smoothly, handles low to medium level workload and lasts(literally) all day, the Air is a solid pick.
valuearb 10y ago
My current MacBook has over 2,000 hours use. I probably paid an extra $500 to get it over a similar dell, so it's cost me 25 cents an hour more. What did I get for that? 1) The ability to run 3 operating systems, and the best laptop operating system, MacOSX. I mostly run MacOSX, but still write shell scripts, use Unix applications, and occasionally run Windows 10 when I have an application that's not on the Mac, but only under protest because MacOSX is so good. 2) Excellent build quality, I've dropped it numerous times without a chip, crack or problem. 3) Retina screen, high resolution that is easy on my eyes, no tiny fonts or misshapen images. Plus while I have Retina on my main screen I'm coding on two 24 inch monitors connected to it. 4) Magsafe. 5) Excellent ergonomics. Trackpad, keyboard are top notch. 6) Far fewer worries about viruses. 7) Far from being quickly obsolescent, Apple computers retain their value far better and longer than other manufacturers. Mine is three years old and I'm no where near considering replacing it. 8) etc. etc I bill $85 an hour. Has my productivity been enhanced more than 1/4 of 1%? Way more. Have I gotten more work because of the quality of my projects? you betcha. Any professional who requires a computer to do their job should always buy the best possible computer to do it with. The extra cost is trivial in comparison to professional wages, the benefits in higher performance are always easily justifiable. If you work a minimum wage job, sure, get the cheapest computer that meets your needs, that makes sense to.
- PascLeRasc 10y ago
  Yeah, I had done web development for a bit on Windows, but when I got my Macbook 2 years ago it really took off not having to wrestle with cygwin and short battery life. I'm still a student but I have a part-time well-paying job right now that's partially thanks to a great OS and hardware.
- branchless 10y ago
  all laptops are pretty cheap if you have a decent job, I don't think that plays into value for money. I'd go with a cheap dell with linux every time, and if you want it beefed up buy a more expensive dell. I always buy 2nd hand too, way cheaper, fungible as there are so many floating around if you need spare parts it's easy. If you are a graphics designer perhaps retina display matters, as a developer which you also seem to be I don't ever think "wow the font rendering is holding me back". And linux has few viruses etc.

valuearb 10y ago

Computers are on the end of a long road to becoming appliances. Apple has been at the forefront of this. My Macbook Pro is glued together, hard or impossible to upgrade, etc. It's also been an excellent laptop, impervious to being dropped (many times) and is far from obsolete 3 years after I purchased it. Were I to resell it now I'd still get most of my purchase cost back.

Girlang 10y ago

The quality of "gaming" laptops has increased substantially over the past few years. (I guess the games are getting older and can afford more!) Look at the Razer Blade for example: decent battery life an decent specs in a small size.

elbrian 10y ago

>Put simply; I don’t see any manufacturers building laptops at the same level of quality that Apple does, and yet, I can’t buy a product that is so tightly controlled, and designed to be obsolete in two years. Dell has been making laptops of equal or better quality for a couple years, now. The XPS line is absolutely stunning.

TurboHaskal 10y ago
Not quite. I have a 2015 13" Macbook Pro and returned an XPS 13 to buy a Thinkpad x250. As much as I want to root for the underdogs I have to admit that Apple is on a league of its own.
- elbrian 10y ago
  Would you care to elaborate a bit? In terms of build quality, the 2015+ XPS line is comparable (at least) to any Mac laptop offering.
  - PascLeRasc 10y ago
    Screen hinge is a big deal to me. My '14 rMBP can be opened while on a desk with one hand and the screen never moves even during furious typing, and I really like that. I work with someone who just got a 13" XPS and his screen wobbles quite a bit.
    - elbrian 10y ago
      I am replying to you on an XPS 13 (model # 9350) and there is zero wobble.