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Disclaimer: I voted remain. You can easily tell people's immigration status. I walked into my local Lidl about 7 years ago and didn't hear an english voice for

Disclaimer: I voted remain. You can easily tell people's immigration status. I walked into my local Lidl about 7 years ago and didn't hear an english voice for the entire 30 min shop. That was the first time I realised how out of control immigration to the UK had become. I voted remain, but if you think we can't tell who's english, or you think it's a lie that huge areas have been ghettozied in virtually every major city, you're either blind or unobservant or simply don't have a diverse contact with many areas of our society.

CalRobert 10y ago
Did you see their passports? Do you know what permission to remain they held?
- mattmanser 10y ago
  How does that change if they're an immigrant or not?
  - pjc50 10y ago
    Let me turn that around: if someone is an immigrant forever even once they have achieved indefinite leave to remain, in what sense is it even possible for them to assimilate?
    - mattmanser 10y ago
      How are you turning that around? You're just misunderstanding the meaning of the words assimilate and immigrant. You're an immigrant till the day you die if you move to a foreign country, but you can integrate with your host country. Immigrant definition: a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country. Someone who lives temporarily is a migrant.
  - CalRobert 10y ago
    "You can easily tell people's immigration status" My point was that you have no idea what status a person holds. They could be citizens who prefer to speak a different language. They could be on holiday. They could be students. They could be in the country without permission. They could be anywhere on the spectrum of immigration permission. You don't know their status. Besides, I went to a shop the other day and not a single person was speaking Irish. They were CLEARLY immigrants.
pjc50 10y ago
You can go into shops in Wales where nobody speaks English either. Yes, there are ghettoes, but (as in European countries which have experienced terrorism problems) that doesn't mean the occupants are immigrants. People can be born here and not have English as a first language. (Also, non-immigrants have very little idea how large the barriers to immigration are these days..)
- coldtea 10y ago
  >People can be born here and not have English as a first language. Only this is less common than the other. Besides, for those anti-immigrant, whether "born here" or "newly arrived" doesn't matter much. If they are not of English, Scottish, etc ancestry, they are immigrants. So saying that the e.g. the terrorists in Germany were German because they were born in the country is a little beside the point when they are clearly from middle-eastern origin for example.
  - pjc50 10y ago
    > for those anti-immigrant, whether "born here" or "newly arrived" doesn't matter much. If they are not of English, Scottish, etc ancestry, they are immigrants. Well, now here we have a problem, because immigration policy can only apply to people who are legally considered immigrants. The word for expelling large numbers of people who were born in the country but not of the dominant ethnicity is "ethnic cleansing".
    - jmorphy88 10y ago
      > The word for expelling large numbers of people who were born in the country but not of the dominant ethnicity is "ethnic cleansing". In London, if population trends are any indication, this sentence applies just as well to English people...
    - coldtea 10y ago
      >The word for expelling large numbers of people who were born in the country but not of the dominant ethnicity is "ethnic cleansing". They might not want them expelled, but simply counted along with new immigrants in estimations of the cumulative amount of people of foreign ethnicities that resulted by immigration (and thus in decisions whether immigration has been "too much" or not).
aphexbr 10y ago
"huge areas have been ghettozied in virtually every major city" Yes, but not just Britain. You hear a lot of Polish around your local Lidl? Well, there's some Spanish bloke also complaining about the amount of English he's hearing in his local Lidl.

CalRobert 10y ago

Did you see their passports? Do you know what permission to remain they held?

mattmanser 10y ago
How does that change if they're an immigrant or not?
- pjc50 10y ago
  Let me turn that around: if someone is an immigrant forever even once they have achieved indefinite leave to remain, in what sense is it even possible for them to assimilate?
  - mattmanser 10y ago
    How are you turning that around? You're just misunderstanding the meaning of the words assimilate and immigrant. You're an immigrant till the day you die if you move to a foreign country, but you can integrate with your host country. Immigrant definition: a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country. Someone who lives temporarily is a migrant.
- CalRobert 10y ago
  "You can easily tell people's immigration status" My point was that you have no idea what status a person holds. They could be citizens who prefer to speak a different language. They could be on holiday. They could be students. They could be in the country without permission. They could be anywhere on the spectrum of immigration permission. You don't know their status. Besides, I went to a shop the other day and not a single person was speaking Irish. They were CLEARLY immigrants.

pjc50 10y ago

You can go into shops in Wales where nobody speaks English either. Yes, there are ghettoes, but (as in European countries which have experienced terrorism problems) that doesn't mean the occupants are immigrants. People can be born here and not have English as a first language. (Also, non-immigrants have very little idea how large the barriers to immigration are these days..)

coldtea 10y ago
>People can be born here and not have English as a first language. Only this is less common than the other. Besides, for those anti-immigrant, whether "born here" or "newly arrived" doesn't matter much. If they are not of English, Scottish, etc ancestry, they are immigrants. So saying that the e.g. the terrorists in Germany were German because they were born in the country is a little beside the point when they are clearly from middle-eastern origin for example.
- pjc50 10y ago
  > for those anti-immigrant, whether "born here" or "newly arrived" doesn't matter much. If they are not of English, Scottish, etc ancestry, they are immigrants. Well, now here we have a problem, because immigration policy can only apply to people who are legally considered immigrants. The word for expelling large numbers of people who were born in the country but not of the dominant ethnicity is "ethnic cleansing".
  - jmorphy88 10y ago
    > The word for expelling large numbers of people who were born in the country but not of the dominant ethnicity is "ethnic cleansing". In London, if population trends are any indication, this sentence applies just as well to English people...
  - coldtea 10y ago
    >The word for expelling large numbers of people who were born in the country but not of the dominant ethnicity is "ethnic cleansing". They might not want them expelled, but simply counted along with new immigrants in estimations of the cumulative amount of people of foreign ethnicities that resulted by immigration (and thus in decisions whether immigration has been "too much" or not).

aphexbr 10y ago

"huge areas have been ghettozied in virtually every major city" Yes, but not just Britain. You hear a lot of Polish around your local Lidl? Well, there's some Spanish bloke also complaining about the amount of English he's hearing in his local Lidl.