6 ms·

Ask HN: ‪When did email spam become an acceptable “growth hack”?

32 points by benguild 10y ago

cpach 10y ago
Would you mind elaborating a bit?
- benguild 10y ago
  "Hello, I came across ..." Two weeks later: "Just checking in to see if you'd seen my email!" ... or something along those lines. Best part is when there is an "opt-out" link.
  - yati 10y ago
    CitiBank used to send me spam about credit cards (I used to own one a few years ago). The opt-out link led to a page where I must fill out an elaborate form with the CC number and address and whatnot to unsubscribe from spam I never asked for in the first place :(
    - DrScump 10y ago
      Are you sure that wasn't a phishing attempt?
      - yati 10y ago
        I did verify that, and yes it was scary in the beginning. When I asked customer care, I was told that is how it is :/
jagermo 10y ago
journalist here. There is hardly a week when I don't get an email or a call about if I "saw the mail about XYZ they sent me last week". I think it has been around forever. Most people I know hate it, but there are still companies that put pressure on their agencys to "follow up". That beeing said, its probably a low-effort thing that still has a medium to high chance to bring in customers. Update: If you work in a company and force your media guys to do these cold calls, please stop. Nothing gets you faster on blacklists.
- builtinbuffalo 10y ago
  So then how does one make you aware of what they're doing? Should they send you over a fax or wait for you to call them? Part of your job, whether you like it or not, is interacting with pr agents and in house marketers via phone and email.
  - jagermo 10y ago
    Don't get me wrong, I have no problems interacting with PR persons or other people. But there is a difference between a friendly chat, a follow-up call (e.g. after an interview or a lenghty mail conversation) and a cold call to check if I intend to write about an obscure "news" release. Yes, it is frustrating if no one picks up your release, but then you have to adapt and choose either a different topic or a different target audience. Me, for example, I never write about personal changes in companies. And still people ask me if and when I publish my piece about their new Head of XYZ.
    - builtinbuffalo 10y ago
      I don't envy the position and having been on both sides before there's no simple answer. I wish I lived in a reality where I could actually take the time to build meaningful relationships with the press at all times, but most of the time being a little pushy and eek spammy is required to deliver.
peterbonney 10y ago
Since before email? Cold calls, catalogs in the mail, coupons, promotions... the medium changes, the sales principles do not.
eeZah7Ux 10y ago
Let's just stop applying the term "hack[er|ing]" to marketing, please.
underyx 10y ago
Just forward those emails to sp@mnesty.com[0] with your personal info removed from the subject and body. You can also send abuse reports with the help of SpamCop[1]. And of course, if you use GMail/Google Inbox, marking them as spam also helps. [0]: https://spa.mnesty.com/ https://spa.mnesty.com/ [1]: http://spamcop.net/ http://spamcop.net/
- pedrorijo91 10y ago
  marking as spam on GMail really works? I do get a lot of similar emails, and I'm always marking as spam and it still get to my inbox. Not really sure how does GMails learns about spam, which fields it considers (just sender? subject? specific words?)?
  - underyx 10y ago
    Okay, you've got me, I don't actually know. But I think I remember seeing emails in spam with an explanation text that said 'this went to spam cause you marked similar messages as spam'. Also, it seems to be learning when I move emails to Promotions/Forums/Updates/etc., so I don't see why this wouldn't be the case for Spam. Maybe it's only for my account though.
  - tmikaeld 10y ago
    We tried to analyze this behavior over employee inboxes on a company using Gmail exclusively and we saw that the users that routinely use the spam button as often or instead of the trash button are ignored on the spam markings (not reported to Amazon SES as spam). I think too many users have gotten used to abusing the spam button like that and that's why Google is ignoring those users.
drcongo 10y ago
I also find the term "growth hacker" unacceptable along with pretty much everything they do.
AznHisoka 10y ago
I generally reply saying "here is a link to my new contact info." the link is just an amazon affiliate link. Now i look forward to cold emails.
forgottenpass 10y ago
Hasn't "growth hacking" always meant shady shit? "Hacking" has just been a word to give cachet to otherwise less-appealing shit for like a decade now. Just do the responsible thing, and contact the abuse department of the sender company, and the "mass mailing" service they use. There is spam coming from their systems, they should be made aware of it.
nunez 10y ago
Did you know that most of the sign-ups credit card companies receive come through snail mail? As long as email continues to be the primary communication medium of the internet, companies will spam people through it. It takes exactly zero effort to set up Mailchimp and run a 50K email campaign. Everyone reads email. If the subject is curious enough, people will read it.
- builtinbuffalo 10y ago
  Except if you do that you won't get very far. At least with MailChimp, which does a lot of policing. You'd be luck to get a few thousand emails out before their spam filters pause your campaign.
builtinbuffalo 10y ago
For as long as sending 100 emails results in one or more sales. Cold email, even done poorly, will still net 1-2%. If economics work, then people do it.
edpichler 10y ago
The email was the best marketing tool to show my product to new users. But I don't send cold emails, I wrote real messages.
thejspr 10y ago
I think automated/transactional emails falls in this category as well. Seems like all startups are firing several Intercom messages at new users these days. I especially don't like how they come of as personal messages, whilst in reality they are robots with a human avatar.
tschlossmacher 10y ago
"Growth Hackers" use the internet as a tool with a complete disregard to the environment that exists. It's a cool tool for a job, the medium where it takes place (reddit, HN, email, FB, twitter) changes but the existing effort won't. Not everyone, unfortunately, views the internet or specific websites as a community. For them, reach numbers are important, and why wouldn't they be. It's not a community to them. They're pursuing ridiculous results and rewarded when they can say "I reached X amount of people through X tactic".

32 points by benguild 10y ago

cpach 10y ago

Would you mind elaborating a bit?

benguild 10y ago
"Hello, I came across ..." Two weeks later: "Just checking in to see if you'd seen my email!" ... or something along those lines. Best part is when there is an "opt-out" link.
- yati 10y ago
  CitiBank used to send me spam about credit cards (I used to own one a few years ago). The opt-out link led to a page where I must fill out an elaborate form with the CC number and address and whatnot to unsubscribe from spam I never asked for in the first place :(
  - DrScump 10y ago
    Are you sure that wasn't a phishing attempt?
    - yati 10y ago
      I did verify that, and yes it was scary in the beginning. When I asked customer care, I was told that is how it is :/

jagermo 10y ago

journalist here. There is hardly a week when I don't get an email or a call about if I "saw the mail about XYZ they sent me last week". I think it has been around forever. Most people I know hate it, but there are still companies that put pressure on their agencys to "follow up". That beeing said, its probably a low-effort thing that still has a medium to high chance to bring in customers. Update: If you work in a company and force your media guys to do these cold calls, please stop. Nothing gets you faster on blacklists.

builtinbuffalo 10y ago
So then how does one make you aware of what they're doing? Should they send you over a fax or wait for you to call them? Part of your job, whether you like it or not, is interacting with pr agents and in house marketers via phone and email.
- jagermo 10y ago
  Don't get me wrong, I have no problems interacting with PR persons or other people. But there is a difference between a friendly chat, a follow-up call (e.g. after an interview or a lenghty mail conversation) and a cold call to check if I intend to write about an obscure "news" release. Yes, it is frustrating if no one picks up your release, but then you have to adapt and choose either a different topic or a different target audience. Me, for example, I never write about personal changes in companies. And still people ask me if and when I publish my piece about their new Head of XYZ.
  - builtinbuffalo 10y ago
    I don't envy the position and having been on both sides before there's no simple answer. I wish I lived in a reality where I could actually take the time to build meaningful relationships with the press at all times, but most of the time being a little pushy and eek spammy is required to deliver.

peterbonney 10y ago

Since before email? Cold calls, catalogs in the mail, coupons, promotions... the medium changes, the sales principles do not.

eeZah7Ux 10y ago

Let's just stop applying the term "hack[er|ing]" to marketing, please.

underyx 10y ago

Just forward those emails to sp@mnesty.com[0] with your personal info removed from the subject and body. You can also send abuse reports with the help of SpamCop[1]. And of course, if you use GMail/Google Inbox, marking them as spam also helps. [0]: https://spa.mnesty.com/ https://spa.mnesty.com/ [1]: http://spamcop.net/ http://spamcop.net/

pedrorijo91 10y ago
marking as spam on GMail really works? I do get a lot of similar emails, and I'm always marking as spam and it still get to my inbox. Not really sure how does GMails learns about spam, which fields it considers (just sender? subject? specific words?)?
- underyx 10y ago
  Okay, you've got me, I don't actually know. But I think I remember seeing emails in spam with an explanation text that said 'this went to spam cause you marked similar messages as spam'. Also, it seems to be learning when I move emails to Promotions/Forums/Updates/etc., so I don't see why this wouldn't be the case for Spam. Maybe it's only for my account though.
- tmikaeld 10y ago
  We tried to analyze this behavior over employee inboxes on a company using Gmail exclusively and we saw that the users that routinely use the spam button as often or instead of the trash button are ignored on the spam markings (not reported to Amazon SES as spam). I think too many users have gotten used to abusing the spam button like that and that's why Google is ignoring those users.

drcongo 10y ago

I also find the term "growth hacker" unacceptable along with pretty much everything they do.

AznHisoka 10y ago

I generally reply saying "here is a link to my new contact info." the link is just an amazon affiliate link. Now i look forward to cold emails.

forgottenpass 10y ago

Hasn't "growth hacking" always meant shady shit? "Hacking" has just been a word to give cachet to otherwise less-appealing shit for like a decade now. Just do the responsible thing, and contact the abuse department of the sender company, and the "mass mailing" service they use. There is spam coming from their systems, they should be made aware of it.

nunez 10y ago

Did you know that most of the sign-ups credit card companies receive come through snail mail? As long as email continues to be the primary communication medium of the internet, companies will spam people through it. It takes exactly zero effort to set up Mailchimp and run a 50K email campaign. Everyone reads email. If the subject is curious enough, people will read it.

builtinbuffalo 10y ago
Except if you do that you won't get very far. At least with MailChimp, which does a lot of policing. You'd be luck to get a few thousand emails out before their spam filters pause your campaign.

builtinbuffalo 10y ago

For as long as sending 100 emails results in one or more sales. Cold email, even done poorly, will still net 1-2%. If economics work, then people do it.

edpichler 10y ago

The email was the best marketing tool to show my product to new users. But I don't send cold emails, I wrote real messages.

thejspr 10y ago

I think automated/transactional emails falls in this category as well. Seems like all startups are firing several Intercom messages at new users these days. I especially don't like how they come of as personal messages, whilst in reality they are robots with a human avatar.

tschlossmacher 10y ago

"Growth Hackers" use the internet as a tool with a complete disregard to the environment that exists. It's a cool tool for a job, the medium where it takes place (reddit, HN, email, FB, twitter) changes but the existing effort won't. Not everyone, unfortunately, views the internet or specific websites as a community. For them, reach numbers are important, and why wouldn't they be. It's not a community to them. They're pursuing ridiculous results and rewarded when they can say "I reached X amount of people through X tactic".