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In NZ there is free healthcare, free accident insurance and a decent welfare program. Being a capitalist country, there is still income inequality, but the situ

by Tomminn 10y ago

In NZ there is free healthcare, free accident insurance and a decent welfare program. Being a capitalist country, there is still income inequality, but the situation is no way near as bad as it is in the US because of these safety nets for the bottom quartile. The homicide rate in NZ is less than 1 per 100,000 inhabitants. And almost all of those homicides are solved, because the police force is large compared to the number of homicides. I disagree strongly that NZ has the same problems as the US. If I lose my leg doing wheelies while drunk on a motorcycle cos I'm idiot, I will be taken care of at hospital, free of charge. If I get cancer, I will get surgery/radiotherapy/chemo till its beaten, free of charge. If I have trouble getting pregnant, the government will fund up to 3 IVF attempts. When I am prescribed drugs, they will basically only ever cost ~$5 a month. All this is possible because the government does a cost/benefit analysis to decide whether various health treatments are actually worth doing. And if it decides something is worth doing, it buys/trains in bulk. As a result, NZ spends ~$3200 USD per capita on healthcare, compared to the >$7500 USD the US spends. And if you're rich, then buy private health insurance. It's waaaaay cheaper, because the government program will happily use private hospitals if they pass the cost/benefit analysis. So private hospitals have a real incentive to provide health care cheaply. But back to the poor. Because of these safety nets, you can be super happy and relaxed in NZ even if you're in the bottom quartile. I would know. I'm in it.

bootload 10y ago
"the situation is no way near as bad as it is in the US because of these safety nets for the bottom quartile." I'm not kiwi-bashing, simply pointing out that rich foreign individuals, using NZ as a bolt-hole are faced with similar situation, just in a more dispersed population. "Of all New Zealand children, 22% live in families where the major caregiver receives income from a social security benefit.[0] That is around 230,000, or one fifth, of New Zealand children" This is supporting what you say wrt to welfare, about the same murder rate (0.9 compared to 1.0) to Aus. [1] The biggest thing I noticed last time I was in the North Island was Waitangi (Treaty of Waitangi). For the Māori a means of citizenship and redress for stolen land. There is nothing like this in Australia (to its shame) and while I can see the results of standards of living supplied by the state, I'm not convinced the type of systemic, race based poverty is not found in NZ like the US. [2] I still remember the effects of Roger Douglas [3] on NZ in the 80's/90's while studying with my Kiwi mates. It is worse in Aus, the country is geographically bigger, without a treaty and to compare the two places, Australian Aboriginal males have a life expectancy of 69.1 [4] but from anecdotally it's more like 50. In NZ it is 72.8 ('13). "I would know. I'm in it." Kia ora @Tomminn [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_poverty_in_New_Zealand#cite_note-41 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_poverty_in_New_Zealand#c... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#By_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Māori_people#Socioeconomic_challenges https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Māori_people#Socioeconomic_cha... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogernomics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogernomics [4] http://aihw.gov.au/deaths/life-expectancy/#indigenous http://aihw.gov.au/deaths/life-expectancy/#indigenous
- bootload 10y ago
  WRT Australian Aboriginals, cf: "Kathleen Ngale is 85 years old and living in conditions I can only describe as hell" ~ https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/24/utopia-kathleen-ngale-is-85-years-old-and-living-in-conditions-i-can-only-describe-as-hell https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/24/utopia...
- disordinary 10y ago
  In NZ Māori could vote from the first election on. They've always been on equal footing with the white man legally (if not socially), they could vote in NZ more than one hundred years before non white suffrage was finally enforced across the US. And as you said there is a tribunal that redresses historic issues with Iwi. Maori also get special seats in parliament, the Te Reo language and Maori culture is a big part of NZ (Aotearoa) culture and our way of life, and there is a lot of state funded help to try and bring the racial inequalities in line. A lot of the problems are what we see all around the world, and are hard to sort out. The towns that Māori live in are often small towns where there is not a lot of employment, if they live in the cities they are often disenfranchised and have a lack of cultural support.
  - bootload 10y ago
    NZ is light years ahead of Aus in this respect. "The towns that Māori live in are often small towns where there is not a lot of employment, if they live in the cities they are often disenfranchised and have a lack of cultural support." I hear the same in Australia. Much bigger country, same lack of support.
disordinary 10y ago
Not only would NZ society pay for your healtchare if you lost your leg but they would also pay for your rehabilitation, any other health issues, and guaranty you an income for life. Also if you pass a certain threshold of medication usage (it's not much, I get prescription allergy medication and I passed it) then you don't even need to pay the $5, that's not to mention the fact that if you are poor or unemployed you also don't need to pay for medication. The problem with private healthcare in NZ is that if there are complications they call an ambulance and send you to a public hospital for an emergency, which are better equipped.

by Tomminn 10y ago

bootload 10y ago

"the situation is no way near as bad as it is in the US because of these safety nets for the bottom quartile." I'm not kiwi-bashing, simply pointing out that rich foreign individuals, using NZ as a bolt-hole are faced with similar situation, just in a more dispersed population. "Of all New Zealand children, 22% live in families where the major caregiver receives income from a social security benefit.[0] That is around 230,000, or one fifth, of New Zealand children" This is supporting what you say wrt to welfare, about the same murder rate (0.9 compared to 1.0) to Aus. [1] The biggest thing I noticed last time I was in the North Island was Waitangi (Treaty of Waitangi). For the Māori a means of citizenship and redress for stolen land. There is nothing like this in Australia (to its shame) and while I can see the results of standards of living supplied by the state, I'm not convinced the type of systemic, race based poverty is not found in NZ like the US. [2] I still remember the effects of Roger Douglas [3] on NZ in the 80's/90's while studying with my Kiwi mates. It is worse in Aus, the country is geographically bigger, without a treaty and to compare the two places, Australian Aboriginal males have a life expectancy of 69.1 [4] but from anecdotally it's more like 50. In NZ it is 72.8 ('13). "I would know. I'm in it." Kia ora @Tomminn [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_poverty_in_New_Zealand#cite_note-41 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_poverty_in_New_Zealand#c... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#By_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Māori_people#Socioeconomic_challenges https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Māori_people#Socioeconomic_cha... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogernomics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogernomics [4] http://aihw.gov.au/deaths/life-expectancy/#indigenous http://aihw.gov.au/deaths/life-expectancy/#indigenous

bootload 10y ago
WRT Australian Aboriginals, cf: "Kathleen Ngale is 85 years old and living in conditions I can only describe as hell" ~ https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/24/utopia-kathleen-ngale-is-85-years-old-and-living-in-conditions-i-can-only-describe-as-hell https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/24/utopia...
disordinary 10y ago
In NZ Māori could vote from the first election on. They've always been on equal footing with the white man legally (if not socially), they could vote in NZ more than one hundred years before non white suffrage was finally enforced across the US. And as you said there is a tribunal that redresses historic issues with Iwi. Maori also get special seats in parliament, the Te Reo language and Maori culture is a big part of NZ (Aotearoa) culture and our way of life, and there is a lot of state funded help to try and bring the racial inequalities in line. A lot of the problems are what we see all around the world, and are hard to sort out. The towns that Māori live in are often small towns where there is not a lot of employment, if they live in the cities they are often disenfranchised and have a lack of cultural support.
- bootload 10y ago
  NZ is light years ahead of Aus in this respect. "The towns that Māori live in are often small towns where there is not a lot of employment, if they live in the cities they are often disenfranchised and have a lack of cultural support." I hear the same in Australia. Much bigger country, same lack of support.

disordinary 10y ago

Not only would NZ society pay for your healtchare if you lost your leg but they would also pay for your rehabilitation, any other health issues, and guaranty you an income for life. Also if you pass a certain threshold of medication usage (it's not much, I get prescription allergy medication and I passed it) then you don't even need to pay the $5, that's not to mention the fact that if you are poor or unemployed you also don't need to pay for medication. The problem with private healthcare in NZ is that if there are complications they call an ambulance and send you to a public hospital for an emergency, which are better equipped.