4 ms·

I think this is what a lot of libertarian types don't get (a lot of overlap with prepper types). Taxes aren't the government stealing money that you willed into

I think this is what a lot of libertarian types don't get (a lot of overlap with prepper types). Taxes aren't the government stealing money that you willed into existence out of thin air, you're paying to live in a society built to protect your wealth.

zeveb 10y ago
> Taxes aren't the government stealing money that you willed into existence out of thin air, you're paying to live in a society built to protect your wealth. Well, the Mafia do protect businesses which pay them protection money, too. Sure, you have a (single) vote for a few legislators and an executive at the state and federal levels to influence the IRS, but the influence of your vote is probably less than your shared humanity is an influence on a don's enforcers. There's a question of the extent to which the government's (or the Mafia's) taxation is commensurate with the services it renders, but they're equally involuntary. (and yes, government is necessary, and preferable to lawlessness; that doesn't mean that everything it does is right, nor does it mean that it's voluntary, any more than the execution of a convict who doesn't physically fight every step to the gallows is voluntary)
malandrew 10y ago
Some taxes are useful (roads, justice system, police, some defense, etc). Many taxes however are simply theft. The only way taxes are fair is when it impacts everyone. When a tax takes money from one group for the benefit of the other, it's theft. A universal consumption tax is about the only thing that is fair as it's proportional to gains and gains are generally (albeitly imperfectly) proportional to shared infrastructure built, maintained and defended using taxes. Unless the additional revenue benefits everyone, it's hard to increase.
- fallingfrog 10y ago
  Our entire society is constructed to remove wealth from many people and funnel it to a few. If taxation is theft, then what is rent? What about the fact that any business pays its employees less than the value of the work they do? Once you start to redefine "theft" in such a wide way, most of the economic and social activity we engage in on a daily basis becomes "theft".

zeveb 10y ago

> Taxes aren't the government stealing money that you willed into existence out of thin air, you're paying to live in a society built to protect your wealth. Well, the Mafia do protect businesses which pay them protection money, too. Sure, you have a (single) vote for a few legislators and an executive at the state and federal levels to influence the IRS, but the influence of your vote is probably less than your shared humanity is an influence on a don's enforcers. There's a question of the extent to which the government's (or the Mafia's) taxation is commensurate with the services it renders, but they're equally involuntary. (and yes, government is necessary, and preferable to lawlessness; that doesn't mean that everything it does is right, nor does it mean that it's voluntary, any more than the execution of a convict who doesn't physically fight every step to the gallows is voluntary)

malandrew 10y ago

Some taxes are useful (roads, justice system, police, some defense, etc). Many taxes however are simply theft. The only way taxes are fair is when it impacts everyone. When a tax takes money from one group for the benefit of the other, it's theft. A universal consumption tax is about the only thing that is fair as it's proportional to gains and gains are generally (albeitly imperfectly) proportional to shared infrastructure built, maintained and defended using taxes. Unless the additional revenue benefits everyone, it's hard to increase.

fallingfrog 10y ago
Our entire society is constructed to remove wealth from many people and funnel it to a few. If taxation is theft, then what is rent? What about the fact that any business pays its employees less than the value of the work they do? Once you start to redefine "theft" in such a wide way, most of the economic and social activity we engage in on a daily basis becomes "theft".