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I'm really interested learning mandarin some day day. Can you describe how you managed to get started with Japanese? I have a 1 year old so all free time curren

I'm really interested learning mandarin some day day. Can you describe how you managed to get started with Japanese? I have a 1 year old so all free time currently goes to her and the Mrs. I think I also don't work very efficiently .. so need to fix that too.

mikekchar 10y ago
Ha ha! I really need to write this down in a central location (again... because I slowly refine my opinion). As briefly as I can put it: Strap on the seat belt because you will be working on the language for a long time if your goal is adult level proficiency and fluency. 5 year olds have about a 5000 word vocabulary and add about 1000 words every year until they reach about 18-20 (depending on if they go to university). There are about 1500 grammar structures to learn in an average language (this last stat is pulled out of my ass, but I think it's about right). There is no course, nor video, nor software that will get you anywhere beyond absolute beginner level. You will be lucky if you manage to talk like a 5 year old. Very long story short (and slightly controversial): You will acquire language by comprehending input that is repeated enough times to remember it. I personally believe that you need to also have a way to test your assumptions (but my opinion is not echoed in the scientific literature -- just my opinion). Way to success: Learn to read. It is your secret weapon. Pinyin is fine for helping you learn the readings for hanzi, but do not get into the habit of reading pinyin. There are about 3600 (IIRC) Chinese characters that you need to know to be functionally literate (there are others in use, but you will be able to devine there meanings through context). The Chinese characters are made up of building blocks and are not especially difficult to learn. They also provide a very powerful mnemonic for vocabulary. Remember that if your goal is adult level proficiency, you will need 15K+ words. The 3K characters will dramatically increase the speed at which you can learn the vocabulary because the system is very logical. My biggest suggestion is to read. Whatever you like. However, since there is a strong tradition of manwa (comic books) in Chinese, which handily use conversational language, this would be my way to go. Learn grammar through example. Some people like to learn grammar. You can, but you don't have to. It's a double edged sword. It helps you figure out the meaning of sentences. However, it also makes you believe that you can construct sentences using these rules and have it make sense. This is incorrect. This is why non-native speakers have all these bizarre grammar ticks when they speak. Use spaced repetition software to help you (I recommend Anki). There should be a vocabulary list of the basic words somewhere. The first 2-3000 of these are probably worth memorising. After that you should switch your focus to learning vocabulary through context (because the meanings will be subtly different than their English counterparts). Read, read, read. Last piece of advice is the most important and feel free to ignore everything else I've said. If you do not do this, I think it is impossible to succeed: Study every day. Better to study twice a day. Better to study three times a day. 5 minutes 3 times a day is better than 30 minutes once a day. 30 minutes once a day is better than 7 hours once a week. (And in fact, anything less than 4 times a week will have you reaching a ceiling pretty quickly and staying there forever). Also: Never give up. Good luck!
- cJ0th 10y ago
  谢谢! What truly impresses me is how people can find a purpose big enough to continue studying for years and, more importantly, with the right attitude. Without a purpose it is hard to retain vocabulary for good. In fact, I had forgotten the Chinese character for "Thank you" even though I studied the most basic characters daily for about 6 months some years ago. Learning English, otoh, has been rather easy as my interest in things such as programming pretty much require it. But then again there is French. Even though I wanted to be able to use it outside school I was never able to have a real conversation in this language. There just wasn't anything French I really connected with. Even their TV program is boring ;)

mikekchar 10y ago

Ha ha! I really need to write this down in a central location (again... because I slowly refine my opinion). As briefly as I can put it: Strap on the seat belt because you will be working on the language for a long time if your goal is adult level proficiency and fluency. 5 year olds have about a 5000 word vocabulary and add about 1000 words every year until they reach about 18-20 (depending on if they go to university). There are about 1500 grammar structures to learn in an average language (this last stat is pulled out of my ass, but I think it's about right). There is no course, nor video, nor software that will get you anywhere beyond absolute beginner level. You will be lucky if you manage to talk like a 5 year old. Very long story short (and slightly controversial): You will acquire language by comprehending input that is repeated enough times to remember it. I personally believe that you need to also have a way to test your assumptions (but my opinion is not echoed in the scientific literature -- just my opinion). Way to success: Learn to read. It is your secret weapon. Pinyin is fine for helping you learn the readings for hanzi, but do not get into the habit of reading pinyin. There are about 3600 (IIRC) Chinese characters that you need to know to be functionally literate (there are others in use, but you will be able to devine there meanings through context). The Chinese characters are made up of building blocks and are not especially difficult to learn. They also provide a very powerful mnemonic for vocabulary. Remember that if your goal is adult level proficiency, you will need 15K+ words. The 3K characters will dramatically increase the speed at which you can learn the vocabulary because the system is very logical. My biggest suggestion is to read. Whatever you like. However, since there is a strong tradition of manwa (comic books) in Chinese, which handily use conversational language, this would be my way to go. Learn grammar through example. Some people like to learn grammar. You can, but you don't have to. It's a double edged sword. It helps you figure out the meaning of sentences. However, it also makes you believe that you can construct sentences using these rules and have it make sense. This is incorrect. This is why non-native speakers have all these bizarre grammar ticks when they speak. Use spaced repetition software to help you (I recommend Anki). There should be a vocabulary list of the basic words somewhere. The first 2-3000 of these are probably worth memorising. After that you should switch your focus to learning vocabulary through context (because the meanings will be subtly different than their English counterparts). Read, read, read. Last piece of advice is the most important and feel free to ignore everything else I've said. If you do not do this, I think it is impossible to succeed: Study every day. Better to study twice a day. Better to study three times a day. 5 minutes 3 times a day is better than 30 minutes once a day. 30 minutes once a day is better than 7 hours once a week. (And in fact, anything less than 4 times a week will have you reaching a ceiling pretty quickly and staying there forever). Also: Never give up. Good luck!

cJ0th 10y ago
谢谢! What truly impresses me is how people can find a purpose big enough to continue studying for years and, more importantly, with the right attitude. Without a purpose it is hard to retain vocabulary for good. In fact, I had forgotten the Chinese character for "Thank you" even though I studied the most basic characters daily for about 6 months some years ago. Learning English, otoh, has been rather easy as my interest in things such as programming pretty much require it. But then again there is French. Even though I wanted to be able to use it outside school I was never able to have a real conversation in this language. There just wasn't anything French I really connected with. Even their TV program is boring ;)