5 ms·

I find this interesting because I just saw a story in my local news about Western Union getting flack because they were making it difficult for certain customer

I find this interesting because I just saw a story in my local news about Western Union getting flack because they were making it difficult for certain customers to send money to known terrorist countries. They were called 'bigoted' and 'racist'. They really can't win here. If they allow anyone to send money anywhere, they get fined by the government for supporting criminals. If they try to make a judgment call, the public gets up-in-arms about it and thinks they are bigoted (and potentially lose customers or get involved in other lawsuits).

chx 10y ago
It should be difficult but doable? I could understand a few questions...
tinalumfoil 10y ago
> If they allow anyone to send money anywhere, they get fined by the government for supporting criminals. They could allow the transactions, but secretly support anything suspicious to government anti-terrorist agencies. They wouldn't get called racist because any transactions they block were at the behest of the government. They wouldn't get in trouble with the government because they're handing all their data to them. And customers wouldn't complain they're divulging private data customers people wouldn't know. It's a win-win-win.
- wonder_er 10y ago
  Then it would just be the HN crowd mad that an organization is secretly passing data to the authorities...
  - PakG1 10y ago
    At least it would all be just a conspiracy theory espoused by tin foil hats until another Snowden shows up.
    - zeroer 10y ago
      If people couldn't be bothered with the actual Snowden leaks, surveillance of money transfers to Pakistan isn't going to move the needle either.
  - CaptainZapp 10y ago
    What, exactly, do you think your bank does when they stumble over transactions that they deem suspicious? Exactly: They report it to the authotities.
- drinkjuice 10y ago
  Why does it have to be "any suspicious activity", and why "anti-terrorist agencies"? Why not start with "things that are obviously crimes" and "the police"?
joeyo 10y ago
Based on the article, it's much simpler than that: "Fraudsters offering fake prizes and job opportunities swindled tens of thousands of U.S. consumers, giving Western Union agents a cut in return for processing the payments, authorities said." In other words, it's not that they are "allowing anyone to send money anywhere"; they didn't discipline their agents for taking a cut of known fraudulent transactions.
- Sacho 10y ago
  Um, isn't this describing their regular activity, worded in a way to make ot seem more sinister? Their agents take a cut for processing payments regardless of whobis involved, no?
  - wheelerwj 10y ago
    It's very possible, but the wording said something like, "allowing many agents to take a cut.." so I would read that like it was an additional payment or kickback of some kind. If it was just part of business, it would have been every agent right?
    - Sacho 10y ago
      > Fraudsters offering fake prizes and job opportunities swindled tens of thousands of U.S. consumers, giving Western Union agents a cut in return for processing the payments, authorities said. I don't see it. I'm reading the actual court documents now, which I found by googling and going to the FTC's website: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/business-blog/2017/01/586-million-western-union-settlement-be-careful-about https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/business-blog/2017/01/... https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/western_union_complaint-jan2017.pdf https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/western_uni... - complaint https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/western_union_consent_order_final_jan2017.pdf https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/western_uni... - final judgement, which includes way more than just the monetary fine.
- kbart 10y ago
  I don't see how that can happen. I have few friends that work in WU and every suspicious transaction is checked at few levels by different people. Maybe unless it's not "agents", but somebody higher up. Or WU have different procedures in EU and USA.
amorphid 10y ago
The one time I tried sending money from Los Angeles, CA, USA to Portland, OR, USA, I wasn't able to meet the criteria necessary to complete the transaction. Some my friend and I, both US Citizens, raised a red flag. It felt pretty lame, and the person manning the Western Union location couldn't care less about helping me navigate the system. I haven't lost a lot of sleep over this, but I never tried using the service again!
- nommm-nommm 10y ago
  Did they tell you what the criteria was? Or did they just deny you based on your name or something?
  - amorphid 10y ago
    It had something to do with my friend not being able to provide enough information to prove "I'm not a terrorist" to what felt like a pedantic level of satisfaction. I don't remember the specifics.
sean_patel 10y ago
> Fraudsters offering fake prizes and job opportunities swindled tens of thousands of U.S. consumers, giving Western Union agents a cut in return for processing the payments, authorities said Ok, how do all these Banks affect so many people in many countries around the world so adversely, and yet not a single person goes to Jail ever for the crime? Meanwhile, the dude selling 1/2 ounce of weed by the street corner in the Tenderloin gets 20 years in Pelican Bay? Serious Question: Why don't they ever have criminal charges against Banks who launder money and cause the deaths of 100s and 1000s of people in war-torn countries?

chx 10y ago

It should be difficult but doable? I could understand a few questions...

tinalumfoil 10y ago

> If they allow anyone to send money anywhere, they get fined by the government for supporting criminals. They could allow the transactions, but secretly support anything suspicious to government anti-terrorist agencies. They wouldn't get called racist because any transactions they block were at the behest of the government. They wouldn't get in trouble with the government because they're handing all their data to them. And customers wouldn't complain they're divulging private data customers people wouldn't know. It's a win-win-win.

wonder_er 10y ago
Then it would just be the HN crowd mad that an organization is secretly passing data to the authorities...
- PakG1 10y ago
  At least it would all be just a conspiracy theory espoused by tin foil hats until another Snowden shows up.
  - zeroer 10y ago
    If people couldn't be bothered with the actual Snowden leaks, surveillance of money transfers to Pakistan isn't going to move the needle either.
- CaptainZapp 10y ago
  What, exactly, do you think your bank does when they stumble over transactions that they deem suspicious? Exactly: They report it to the authotities.
drinkjuice 10y ago
Why does it have to be "any suspicious activity", and why "anti-terrorist agencies"? Why not start with "things that are obviously crimes" and "the police"?

joeyo 10y ago

Based on the article, it's much simpler than that: "Fraudsters offering fake prizes and job opportunities swindled tens of thousands of U.S. consumers, giving Western Union agents a cut in return for processing the payments, authorities said." In other words, it's not that they are "allowing anyone to send money anywhere"; they didn't discipline their agents for taking a cut of known fraudulent transactions.

Sacho 10y ago
Um, isn't this describing their regular activity, worded in a way to make ot seem more sinister? Their agents take a cut for processing payments regardless of whobis involved, no?
- wheelerwj 10y ago
  It's very possible, but the wording said something like, "allowing many agents to take a cut.." so I would read that like it was an additional payment or kickback of some kind. If it was just part of business, it would have been every agent right?
  - Sacho 10y ago
    > Fraudsters offering fake prizes and job opportunities swindled tens of thousands of U.S. consumers, giving Western Union agents a cut in return for processing the payments, authorities said. I don't see it. I'm reading the actual court documents now, which I found by googling and going to the FTC's website: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/business-blog/2017/01/586-million-western-union-settlement-be-careful-about https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/business-blog/2017/01/... https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/western_union_complaint-jan2017.pdf https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/western_uni... - complaint https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/western_union_consent_order_final_jan2017.pdf https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/western_uni... - final judgement, which includes way more than just the monetary fine.
kbart 10y ago
I don't see how that can happen. I have few friends that work in WU and every suspicious transaction is checked at few levels by different people. Maybe unless it's not "agents", but somebody higher up. Or WU have different procedures in EU and USA.

amorphid 10y ago

The one time I tried sending money from Los Angeles, CA, USA to Portland, OR, USA, I wasn't able to meet the criteria necessary to complete the transaction. Some my friend and I, both US Citizens, raised a red flag. It felt pretty lame, and the person manning the Western Union location couldn't care less about helping me navigate the system. I haven't lost a lot of sleep over this, but I never tried using the service again!

nommm-nommm 10y ago
Did they tell you what the criteria was? Or did they just deny you based on your name or something?
- amorphid 10y ago
  It had something to do with my friend not being able to provide enough information to prove "I'm not a terrorist" to what felt like a pedantic level of satisfaction. I don't remember the specifics.

sean_patel 10y ago

> Fraudsters offering fake prizes and job opportunities swindled tens of thousands of U.S. consumers, giving Western Union agents a cut in return for processing the payments, authorities said Ok, how do all these Banks affect so many people in many countries around the world so adversely, and yet not a single person goes to Jail ever for the crime? Meanwhile, the dude selling 1/2 ounce of weed by the street corner in the Tenderloin gets 20 years in Pelican Bay? Serious Question: Why don't they ever have criminal charges against Banks who launder money and cause the deaths of 100s and 1000s of people in war-torn countries?