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I'm not sure I agree. My idea of "fixing the Uber problem" is increasing the payout to drivers so they can afford a hotel room at the end of a 14 hour shift. Th

I'm not sure I agree. My idea of "fixing the Uber problem" is increasing the payout to drivers so they can afford a hotel room at the end of a 14 hour shift. This will directly improve the conditions of Uber drivers, at least.

EdHominem 10y ago
If you want to help these drivers I think they'd prefer access to an overnight parking lot and a community-center shower for $10 than a sleezy hotel for $100. If you really came through with the extra pay I think they still sleep in their cars and bank the difference.
strken 10y ago
This will do one of three things: 1. increase Uber's already sizable losses, causing the business to fail 2. increase the cost of a fare, leading to fewer rides and forcing drivers to find other employment 3. increase the cost of a fare, but have little impact on rider numbers because fares were already too low, making everyone happy If it's option 3, then that's great. But if that's the case, why did Uber originally lower fares? EDIT: should probably add that I support a UBI to solve this. I'm not suggesting that sleeping in your car after a 14 hour shift is good, or right.
- hackuser 10y ago
  > increase Uber's already sizable losses, causing the business to fail Or they will need to adjust and find another way, like all businesses do. Or they will fail and someone else will find a better way. That's what the free market is about. It's an old trope that if you increase costs on a business, it's passed along to customers or someone else. That's not how economics works; businesses have many options, they aren't locked into their way of doing things (again, that 'free market'). One question I always have is, why should I care if Uber succeeds or fails? They openly disdain caring about anyone else, including their drivers and the laws of the communities where they operate. I care about their workers, but what does Uber itself matter to me?
- magicalist 10y ago
  > If it's option 3, then that's great. But if that's the case, why did Uber originally lower fares? Subsidize with investor money to try to drive competitors out of business?
- pfooti 10y ago
  It seems to me that if Uber is unable to pay its drivers a living wage, they don't actually have a sustainable business model. They have a business model that relies on regulatory arbitrage (avoiding minimum wage or other employee-protection laws by skirting the Independent Contractor line as much as feasible), externalized costs (letting the government pay for things like food stamps and housing assistance), and good old fashioned exploitation of the working class. I mean, I understand that uber started because the taxi market was protectionist. But on the other hand, do taxi drivers have better pay and a better union? Often, yes. There may be a middle ground here. (* note that this argument applies to a lot of the gig-economy jobs out there, including lyft, doordash, and so on, not just Uber)
  - strken 10y ago
    The article gave pay as either $15/h or $19/h before expenses, and cited expenses as being roughly a quarter of pay. Elsewhere in the article, a driver's pay is given as $12/h after expenses, which is consistent with the other numbers. Is that a livable wage? I'm not sure, but it's higher than minimum wage. Does it make Uber sustainable? I'm not sure, but it arguably makes it more sustainable than Walmart.
  - aianus 10y ago
    > It seems to me that if Uber is unable to pay its drivers a living wage, they don't actually have a sustainable business model. Why does everything need to pay a living wage? Uber driving is so easy that there must be a sizeable population of people that are willing to do it for less than a 'living wage' (retirees, students, housewives who want to get out of the house once, unemployed people between jobhunting). I do it myself a few times a week just because I like driving, even though it pays literally 8x less than my day job.
    - scarface74 10y ago
      We allow our 14 year old son to use Uber all of the time for our convenience/his independence but we used Uber for the first time last weekend during a "staycation". Out of the 6 drivers we had, 4 of them said they do it for a little extra spending money or to break the monotony of their day job. One of the drivers was a manager at Verizon's corporate office. When I was single and if I had enjoyed driving and wanted to kill some time, I could have seen myself being an Uber driver occasionally. I taught fitness classes a few times a week for years part time because I enjoyed it. It definitely wasn't for the money.

EdHominem 10y ago

If you want to help these drivers I think they'd prefer access to an overnight parking lot and a community-center shower for $10 than a sleezy hotel for $100. If you really came through with the extra pay I think they still sleep in their cars and bank the difference.

strken 10y ago

This will do one of three things: 1. increase Uber's already sizable losses, causing the business to fail 2. increase the cost of a fare, leading to fewer rides and forcing drivers to find other employment 3. increase the cost of a fare, but have little impact on rider numbers because fares were already too low, making everyone happy If it's option 3, then that's great. But if that's the case, why did Uber originally lower fares? EDIT: should probably add that I support a UBI to solve this. I'm not suggesting that sleeping in your car after a 14 hour shift is good, or right.

hackuser 10y ago
> increase Uber's already sizable losses, causing the business to fail Or they will need to adjust and find another way, like all businesses do. Or they will fail and someone else will find a better way. That's what the free market is about. It's an old trope that if you increase costs on a business, it's passed along to customers or someone else. That's not how economics works; businesses have many options, they aren't locked into their way of doing things (again, that 'free market'). One question I always have is, why should I care if Uber succeeds or fails? They openly disdain caring about anyone else, including their drivers and the laws of the communities where they operate. I care about their workers, but what does Uber itself matter to me?
magicalist 10y ago
> If it's option 3, then that's great. But if that's the case, why did Uber originally lower fares? Subsidize with investor money to try to drive competitors out of business?
pfooti 10y ago
It seems to me that if Uber is unable to pay its drivers a living wage, they don't actually have a sustainable business model. They have a business model that relies on regulatory arbitrage (avoiding minimum wage or other employee-protection laws by skirting the Independent Contractor line as much as feasible), externalized costs (letting the government pay for things like food stamps and housing assistance), and good old fashioned exploitation of the working class. I mean, I understand that uber started because the taxi market was protectionist. But on the other hand, do taxi drivers have better pay and a better union? Often, yes. There may be a middle ground here. (* note that this argument applies to a lot of the gig-economy jobs out there, including lyft, doordash, and so on, not just Uber)
- strken 10y ago
  The article gave pay as either $15/h or $19/h before expenses, and cited expenses as being roughly a quarter of pay. Elsewhere in the article, a driver's pay is given as $12/h after expenses, which is consistent with the other numbers. Is that a livable wage? I'm not sure, but it's higher than minimum wage. Does it make Uber sustainable? I'm not sure, but it arguably makes it more sustainable than Walmart.
- aianus 10y ago
  > It seems to me that if Uber is unable to pay its drivers a living wage, they don't actually have a sustainable business model. Why does everything need to pay a living wage? Uber driving is so easy that there must be a sizeable population of people that are willing to do it for less than a 'living wage' (retirees, students, housewives who want to get out of the house once, unemployed people between jobhunting). I do it myself a few times a week just because I like driving, even though it pays literally 8x less than my day job.
  - scarface74 10y ago
    We allow our 14 year old son to use Uber all of the time for our convenience/his independence but we used Uber for the first time last weekend during a "staycation". Out of the 6 drivers we had, 4 of them said they do it for a little extra spending money or to break the monotony of their day job. One of the drivers was a manager at Verizon's corporate office. When I was single and if I had enjoyed driving and wanted to kill some time, I could have seen myself being an Uber driver occasionally. I taught fitness classes a few times a week for years part time because I enjoyed it. It definitely wasn't for the money.