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> I've seen people pretty much melt down from the stress of having all their values brought into question and everything that they thought was common sense thro

> I've seen people pretty much melt down from the stress of having all their values brought into question and everything that they thought was common sense thrown out of the window. I'm curious as to what values are so different in China. Could you give an example, please? For my part, I've lived in Argentina, USA, France, Spain, German, and the UK. I've found that values are pretty similar. Nothing that makes me feel shockingly out of place. But they're all "European" countries, hence the question.

deleted 10y ago
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zhengyi13 10y ago
I lived as a student at Beida for a full year, between 96 to 97. I saw Deng die, and the return of Hong Kong. At least at the time, three things always struck me: 1) The pollution was awful -- we were in in Qinghuadaxue for fully one month before the sky finally cleared enough that we could see the Fragrant Hills - we literally had no idea they were there. I re-visited China again in 2013 I think, and it's just worse. There can be no overstatement of how bad it is, and this is what I thought of immediately when Mr Barra mentioned his health. 2) Culturally... No one queued. Ever. For anything. At the McDonald's at Tiananmen square, you had to physically shove your way forward through a solid crowd 15+ feet deep, wave your money at the cashier, and once they had taken your money, then you could give them your order. In 2013, I didn't see this sort of no-queueing behavior, but I had only two weeks in country that time. 3) Social mores are a little odd. You could have a conversation in a private place with a local (like, a taxi driver in cab) and they'd talk all about how awful and stupid the government was. But prostitution? No, we don't have that here. HIV? Oh, that's a foreign disease. Gay people? We don't have them here either. And about that last, I don't think this is any longer the case, but at the time in 96, there was one gay bar in the entirety of Beijing (Yi Ban Yi Ban, IIRC), and they were raided/harassed on a semi-frequent basis. At least in 2013, the public spitting was greatly reduced, but I still saw children being guided by parents to pee on the street. China was an amazing experience as a student, and the Chinese people I got to know directly (i.e. outside of official functions) were wonderful and welcoming. But boy howdy, there were some rough edges to public life.
mikekchar 10y ago
I can guess what values are different in China, but since I haven't lived there it's probably better not to. Instead, I can tell you about one of the most difficult aspects of Japanese culture for most foreigners. It's a bit strange because this is one of the things that I personally like about Japanese culture, even though it is definitely unsettling at times. People in Japan are very polite and helpful. If you meet someone, they will smile and say good morning. If you are lost, they will often go well out of their way to help you. This friendliness is expected in the culture and people work very hard to keep it up. It extends into your personal relationships and there is a saying that you have one face that you present to everyone, one face that you show to your family and one face that you never show anyone else. The corollary is that every interaction you have with people involves an artifice to a greater or lesser extent. If you ask someone for their opinion, they will generally try to guess what you think and give you that opinion -- because they don't want to upset you. Often when you are at work, people will be very nice to you, even if they don't like you very much. In fact, it may be the case that someone will actually hate you, but act like you are their best friend. Some of the people who have helped me the most and to whom I owe the most are people who I'm pretty sure despise me (but they are first on my list for souvenirs when I go travelling!) In western cultures, there is a kind of tradition of clearing the air. You feel that you need to share your differences and work them out so that you can come to a better understanding of each other. This is not the case in Japan. If you suspect that there is a problem and try to work it out, the other person will be very uncomfortable. If you press the issue, they will squirm and lie about their feelings. If you press the issue even more, they will eventually break down and get very angry. But then, having gotten angry, they will be embarrassed and upset and they will never speak another word to you for as long as you live. To some people, this is incredibly upsetting. There is no way to determine if people genuinely like you or if they hate your guts. You will catch people out in little lies that have been constructed so that you don't have to discuss a difference of opinion. While this is done ostensibly to promote the harmonious flow of day to day life, you can get the feeling that nobody takes you seriously. Nobody is actually listening to you. Nobody cares what you think. They just smile and... well, lie to your face. And since many westerners are judgemental by culture, they imagine that they are being judged by this infuriating group of incessantly smiling jerks that are laughing at them behind their backs (when in fact, nobody cares what you think as long as you don't make trouble). As for me... I'm living in a land of very polite people who smile and treat me well, even if they don't like me. As someone with a different way of looking at things, people take pleasure in listening to me and congratulating me on my unique view of the world. They go out of their way to help me and I return the favour. Nobody gives a damn if you agree or disagree or if you like someone or don't like someone. For me it's a kind of paradise where I can relax and throw out all the drama of western style relationships. But even still, I can understand why some people can't deal with it.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

zhengyi13 10y ago

I lived as a student at Beida for a full year, between 96 to 97. I saw Deng die, and the return of Hong Kong. At least at the time, three things always struck me: 1) The pollution was awful -- we were in in Qinghuadaxue for fully one month before the sky finally cleared enough that we could see the Fragrant Hills - we literally had no idea they were there. I re-visited China again in 2013 I think, and it's just worse. There can be no overstatement of how bad it is, and this is what I thought of immediately when Mr Barra mentioned his health. 2) Culturally... No one queued. Ever. For anything. At the McDonald's at Tiananmen square, you had to physically shove your way forward through a solid crowd 15+ feet deep, wave your money at the cashier, and once they had taken your money, then you could give them your order. In 2013, I didn't see this sort of no-queueing behavior, but I had only two weeks in country that time. 3) Social mores are a little odd. You could have a conversation in a private place with a local (like, a taxi driver in cab) and they'd talk all about how awful and stupid the government was. But prostitution? No, we don't have that here. HIV? Oh, that's a foreign disease. Gay people? We don't have them here either. And about that last, I don't think this is any longer the case, but at the time in 96, there was one gay bar in the entirety of Beijing (Yi Ban Yi Ban, IIRC), and they were raided/harassed on a semi-frequent basis. At least in 2013, the public spitting was greatly reduced, but I still saw children being guided by parents to pee on the street. China was an amazing experience as a student, and the Chinese people I got to know directly (i.e. outside of official functions) were wonderful and welcoming. But boy howdy, there were some rough edges to public life.

mikekchar 10y ago

I can guess what values are different in China, but since I haven't lived there it's probably better not to. Instead, I can tell you about one of the most difficult aspects of Japanese culture for most foreigners. It's a bit strange because this is one of the things that I personally like about Japanese culture, even though it is definitely unsettling at times. People in Japan are very polite and helpful. If you meet someone, they will smile and say good morning. If you are lost, they will often go well out of their way to help you. This friendliness is expected in the culture and people work very hard to keep it up. It extends into your personal relationships and there is a saying that you have one face that you present to everyone, one face that you show to your family and one face that you never show anyone else. The corollary is that every interaction you have with people involves an artifice to a greater or lesser extent. If you ask someone for their opinion, they will generally try to guess what you think and give you that opinion -- because they don't want to upset you. Often when you are at work, people will be very nice to you, even if they don't like you very much. In fact, it may be the case that someone will actually hate you, but act like you are their best friend. Some of the people who have helped me the most and to whom I owe the most are people who I'm pretty sure despise me (but they are first on my list for souvenirs when I go travelling!) In western cultures, there is a kind of tradition of clearing the air. You feel that you need to share your differences and work them out so that you can come to a better understanding of each other. This is not the case in Japan. If you suspect that there is a problem and try to work it out, the other person will be very uncomfortable. If you press the issue, they will squirm and lie about their feelings. If you press the issue even more, they will eventually break down and get very angry. But then, having gotten angry, they will be embarrassed and upset and they will never speak another word to you for as long as you live. To some people, this is incredibly upsetting. There is no way to determine if people genuinely like you or if they hate your guts. You will catch people out in little lies that have been constructed so that you don't have to discuss a difference of opinion. While this is done ostensibly to promote the harmonious flow of day to day life, you can get the feeling that nobody takes you seriously. Nobody is actually listening to you. Nobody cares what you think. They just smile and... well, lie to your face. And since many westerners are judgemental by culture, they imagine that they are being judged by this infuriating group of incessantly smiling jerks that are laughing at them behind their backs (when in fact, nobody cares what you think as long as you don't make trouble). As for me... I'm living in a land of very polite people who smile and treat me well, even if they don't like me. As someone with a different way of looking at things, people take pleasure in listening to me and congratulating me on my unique view of the world. They go out of their way to help me and I return the favour. Nobody gives a damn if you agree or disagree or if you like someone or don't like someone. For me it's a kind of paradise where I can relax and throw out all the drama of western style relationships. But even still, I can understand why some people can't deal with it.