10 ms·

This Podesta email isn't one of the DKIM-signed ones, but it shows that Clinton was ultimately going to support TPP regardless of what she was saying: https://

This Podesta email isn't one of the DKIM-signed ones, but it shows that Clinton was ultimately going to support TPP regardless of what she was saying: https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/6616 https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/6616 (note the email is from 2015) As for Trump, he's done 2 of the "Seven actions to protect American workers" he promised for the first 100 days in office (PDF): https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/_landings/contract/O-TRU-102316-Contractv02.pdf https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/_landings/contract/O-TRU-102...

zardeh 10y ago
No it doesn't, or at least not as far as I can read. A summary of that email is > Here is a letter I've drafted outlining our position on trade. This draft assumes that Clinton will ultimately support the TPP and TPA, but we may change the letter dramatically if Clinton does not end up supporting the TPP and TPA (ostensibly because the final agreement doesn't cause a net gain in jobs).
- polartx 10y ago
  Handy having a plan with contingency for a 180 degree pivot on her position.
  - danso 10y ago
    "Contingency" was exactly the word I was thinking of. From the LA Times article I referenced, here is one summarization of her publicly stated opposition: > “I still believe in the goal of a strong and fair trade agreement in the Pacific as part of a broader strategy both at home and abroad, just as I did when I was secretary of State,” she said in a statement. “But the bar here is very high and, based on what I have seen, I don't believe this agreement has met it.” Of course Clinton, nor Obama, would sign a trade agreement that wouldn't be a "fair" agreement. But "fair" is not binary. Clinton could just as easily sign the bulk of the agreement as president after she claims that her advisers have negotiated for some concessions to make TPP more "fair". But Trump from the very start said he was going to kill it. As another example, Trump, and every other politician, has been following the popular sentiment that drug companies (e.g. Shkreli, Epi-Pens, etc) shouldn't be gouging people on life-saving drugs. There's a lot of strong ways to criticize drug companies, and every politician does it because it means free positive press. But Trump outright said in his last president-elect presser that drug companies were "Getting away with murder." [0] With healthcare in general, it remains to be seen if his promised reforms are going to be a net benefit. Or whether killing free trade will be a net benefit, for that matter. But Trump at least states his views in clear terms. Again, not saying that that's ultimately a great way of governance (massive government decisions and policy are a work of process and compromise), but hey, that's the kind of personality people say they want in their politicians. [0] http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-drugpricing-idUSKBN14V24J http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-drugpricing-idUS...
    - anigbrowl 10y ago
      it remains to be seen [...] whether killing free trade will be a net benefit Sure, if you hate reading history books. The thing is, we actually have quite a lot of evidence about matters of international trade already which one side in this debate consistently ignores in favor of hypotheticals.
  - lhc- 10y ago
    It sounds like the criticism is "I hate that she might change her mind based on new evidence". I'd say its a good thing that they were willing to alter their policy based on whether it would create jobs or not.
    - dv_dt 10y ago
      Uh, huh, and was there evidence of planning with regard to what to do with trade with those nations should she not sign the TPP?
    - koolba 10y ago
      > It sounds like the criticism is "I hate that she might change her mind based on new evidence". I'd say its a good thing that they were willing to alter their policy based on whether it would create jobs or not. The only "new evidence" that would sway Clinton's opinion on the TPP were poll numbers.
      - tinus_hn 10y ago
        >The only "new evidence" that would sway Clinton's opinion on the TPP were poll numbers. Sounds like direct democracy to me! She's following the will of the people!
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
  - anigbrowl 10y ago
    Keeping your options open is sound strategy because humans are imperfect at predicting the future and frequently overestimate their intellectual acumen. Why wouldn't you want a fallback position in case your first plan didn't work out?
  - hyperbovine 10y ago
    I personally prefer having somebody in office who(se staff) plans for unlikely scenarios as well as likely ones.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
stephancoral 10y ago
>As for Trump, he's done 2 of the "Seven actions to protect American workers" he promised for the first 100 days in office (PDF) Pretty easy to hit milestones when the goals are low. "Announce intent" and "Stop bill that was never going to pass congress" aren't exactly adroit acts of statesmanship.
- kafkaesq 10y ago
  "Announce intent" and "Stop bill that was never going to pass congress" aren't exactly adroit acts of statesmanship. OTOH "making a clear, simple statement about something that hits a raw nerve with tens of millions of working-class Americans -- but which Hillary won't touch with a ten-foot pole until way too late" matters a hell of a lot. And has a lot to do with how this man came to get as far as he has, so far.
- emodendroket 10y ago
  TPP didn't look like a dead letter like a year ago though.
- 794CD01 10y ago
  Better to under-promise and over-deliver.
hackuser 10y ago
> As for Trump, he's done 2 of the "Seven actions to protect American workers" he promised for the first 100 days in office What does this have to do with the discussion? It seems to be purely political advocacy. Personally, I'd prefer we not have it on HN.
- noobermin 10y ago
  I am not for Trump and will actively protest him, but what "degenerate" pointed out is completely relevant to the discussion.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - hackuser 10y ago
    How?
    - noobermin 10y ago
      The discussion is that US pulls out of TPP...because Trump promised it and he initiated it.
      - dragonwriter 10y ago
        No, the US never joined the TPP because that would have taken Congressional action that never occurred. Trump made it clear that he wasn't going to change the status quo, but painting it as a change to the status quo is false.
      - hackuser 10y ago
        But what does Trump's PR about his workers program and now much as been accomplished have to do with it? It's just political promotion. The first part of the comment in question seems fine; the last is an ad for a politician.
burkaman 10y ago
Following through on your promises is not a good thing if you make bad promises. People who voted against him did so because of what he promised to do, not because they didn't think he would deliver.
deeth_starr 10y ago
Look, this email is pretty typical for political operatives of every campaign. You would see much uglier stuff (I think) if you saw the emails of Trump operatives (graft, self-dealing, calling voters idiots where you could shoot someone on 5th st, etc). TPP was an easy call. For NAFTA he's going to pull some Carrier renegotiate bullshit. Smoke and mirrors. It's too big to kill. Maybe over 10 years. Maybe. http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/08/news/companies/carrier-jobs-automation/ http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/08/news/companies/carrier-jobs-... Don't get me wrong I like protecting jobs in the US and have been very pro-US made. But Trump is not that and is just turning the steal-from-middle-class dial up to 11.
dragonwriter 10y ago
> This Podesta email isn't one of the DKIM-signed ones, but it shows that Clinton was ultimately going to support TPP regardless of what she was saying: No, it doesn't show that at all. It shows that staff had done some preparatory work on the explicitly-uncertain assumption that an ongoing discussion would end up a particular way. Which clearly shows that, at least as far as the author of the email was concerned, what Clinton would end up doing was unknown.

zardeh 10y ago

No it doesn't, or at least not as far as I can read. A summary of that email is > Here is a letter I've drafted outlining our position on trade. This draft assumes that Clinton will ultimately support the TPP and TPA, but we may change the letter dramatically if Clinton does not end up supporting the TPP and TPA (ostensibly because the final agreement doesn't cause a net gain in jobs).

polartx 10y ago
Handy having a plan with contingency for a 180 degree pivot on her position.
- danso 10y ago
  "Contingency" was exactly the word I was thinking of. From the LA Times article I referenced, here is one summarization of her publicly stated opposition: > “I still believe in the goal of a strong and fair trade agreement in the Pacific as part of a broader strategy both at home and abroad, just as I did when I was secretary of State,” she said in a statement. “But the bar here is very high and, based on what I have seen, I don't believe this agreement has met it.” Of course Clinton, nor Obama, would sign a trade agreement that wouldn't be a "fair" agreement. But "fair" is not binary. Clinton could just as easily sign the bulk of the agreement as president after she claims that her advisers have negotiated for some concessions to make TPP more "fair". But Trump from the very start said he was going to kill it. As another example, Trump, and every other politician, has been following the popular sentiment that drug companies (e.g. Shkreli, Epi-Pens, etc) shouldn't be gouging people on life-saving drugs. There's a lot of strong ways to criticize drug companies, and every politician does it because it means free positive press. But Trump outright said in his last president-elect presser that drug companies were "Getting away with murder." [0] With healthcare in general, it remains to be seen if his promised reforms are going to be a net benefit. Or whether killing free trade will be a net benefit, for that matter. But Trump at least states his views in clear terms. Again, not saying that that's ultimately a great way of governance (massive government decisions and policy are a work of process and compromise), but hey, that's the kind of personality people say they want in their politicians. [0] http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-drugpricing-idUSKBN14V24J http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-drugpricing-idUS...
  - anigbrowl 10y ago
    it remains to be seen [...] whether killing free trade will be a net benefit Sure, if you hate reading history books. The thing is, we actually have quite a lot of evidence about matters of international trade already which one side in this debate consistently ignores in favor of hypotheticals.
- lhc- 10y ago
  It sounds like the criticism is "I hate that she might change her mind based on new evidence". I'd say its a good thing that they were willing to alter their policy based on whether it would create jobs or not.
  - dv_dt 10y ago
    Uh, huh, and was there evidence of planning with regard to what to do with trade with those nations should she not sign the TPP?
  - koolba 10y ago
    > It sounds like the criticism is "I hate that she might change her mind based on new evidence". I'd say its a good thing that they were willing to alter their policy based on whether it would create jobs or not. The only "new evidence" that would sway Clinton's opinion on the TPP were poll numbers.
    - tinus_hn 10y ago
      >The only "new evidence" that would sway Clinton's opinion on the TPP were poll numbers. Sounds like direct democracy to me! She's following the will of the people!
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
- anigbrowl 10y ago
  Keeping your options open is sound strategy because humans are imperfect at predicting the future and frequently overestimate their intellectual acumen. Why wouldn't you want a fallback position in case your first plan didn't work out?
- hyperbovine 10y ago
  I personally prefer having somebody in office who(se staff) plans for unlikely scenarios as well as likely ones.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

stephancoral 10y ago

>As for Trump, he's done 2 of the "Seven actions to protect American workers" he promised for the first 100 days in office (PDF) Pretty easy to hit milestones when the goals are low. "Announce intent" and "Stop bill that was never going to pass congress" aren't exactly adroit acts of statesmanship.

kafkaesq 10y ago
"Announce intent" and "Stop bill that was never going to pass congress" aren't exactly adroit acts of statesmanship. OTOH "making a clear, simple statement about something that hits a raw nerve with tens of millions of working-class Americans -- but which Hillary won't touch with a ten-foot pole until way too late" matters a hell of a lot. And has a lot to do with how this man came to get as far as he has, so far.
emodendroket 10y ago
TPP didn't look like a dead letter like a year ago though.
794CD01 10y ago
Better to under-promise and over-deliver.

hackuser 10y ago

> As for Trump, he's done 2 of the "Seven actions to protect American workers" he promised for the first 100 days in office What does this have to do with the discussion? It seems to be purely political advocacy. Personally, I'd prefer we not have it on HN.

noobermin 10y ago
I am not for Trump and will actively protest him, but what "degenerate" pointed out is completely relevant to the discussion.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- hackuser 10y ago
  How?
  - noobermin 10y ago
    The discussion is that US pulls out of TPP...because Trump promised it and he initiated it.
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      No, the US never joined the TPP because that would have taken Congressional action that never occurred. Trump made it clear that he wasn't going to change the status quo, but painting it as a change to the status quo is false.
    - hackuser 10y ago
      But what does Trump's PR about his workers program and now much as been accomplished have to do with it? It's just political promotion. The first part of the comment in question seems fine; the last is an ad for a politician.

burkaman 10y ago

Following through on your promises is not a good thing if you make bad promises. People who voted against him did so because of what he promised to do, not because they didn't think he would deliver.

deeth_starr 10y ago

Look, this email is pretty typical for political operatives of every campaign. You would see much uglier stuff (I think) if you saw the emails of Trump operatives (graft, self-dealing, calling voters idiots where you could shoot someone on 5th st, etc). TPP was an easy call. For NAFTA he's going to pull some Carrier renegotiate bullshit. Smoke and mirrors. It's too big to kill. Maybe over 10 years. Maybe. http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/08/news/companies/carrier-jobs-automation/ http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/08/news/companies/carrier-jobs-... Don't get me wrong I like protecting jobs in the US and have been very pro-US made. But Trump is not that and is just turning the steal-from-middle-class dial up to 11.

dragonwriter 10y ago

> This Podesta email isn't one of the DKIM-signed ones, but it shows that Clinton was ultimately going to support TPP regardless of what she was saying: No, it doesn't show that at all. It shows that staff had done some preparatory work on the explicitly-uncertain assumption that an ongoing discussion would end up a particular way. Which clearly shows that, at least as far as the author of the email was concerned, what Clinton would end up doing was unknown.