7 ms·

I live in small-town Kansas but commute to San Francisco occasionally for my job, which is based there. I just got back from a trip last week and noticed somet

I live in small-town Kansas but commute to San Francisco occasionally for my job, which is based there. I just got back from a trip last week and noticed something startling about the Uber drivers that ferried me around: never before have I seen drivers this bad. Twice in one week, my drivers nearly ran over a pedestrian. On one of those incidents, a guy was walking across a crosswalk in North Beach in broad daylight. Everybody in this Uber Pool was screaming "stop!" as the driver ran right up on this poor guy but the driver seemed oblivious, like the guy was invisible. The only explanation, I think, is that our driver was extremely fatigued. I predict that rideshare-pedestrian deaths are going to skyrocket in 2017 as more drivers take desperate measures to try to get by.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
otoburb 10y ago
I heard anecdotally that drivers with ratings below 4.6 have their Uber driver accounts shutdown. In this instance, how would the rating work for drivers in an UberPool? Does each person's vote count for only 1/n, or is each one a full vote? If it's full votes for all riders in a single UberPool ride, all it probably takes are a couple of mediocre UberPool experiences and the driver is selected out of the driving pool.
- civilian 10y ago
  I thought it was anything below 4, but who knows. When I have unsafe drivers I aggressively rate them 1 or 2s depending on what it was. I know that it's "mean" to the driver, but I'm being kind to future passengers, pedestrians, and everyone who shares the road.
- ryen 10y ago
  I wouldn't believe any assumptions around how Uber ratings affect drivers. In many cities Uber's demand outweighs their pool of available drivers. Its not in their best interest to remove drivers from their platform other than the most egregious cases.
- amyjess 10y ago
  > I heard anecdotally that drivers with ratings below 4.6 have their Uber driver accounts shutdown. Uber and Lyft say they do this, but I've personally seen drivers with lower ratings kicking around. Anyone know what's up with that?
  - thaeli 10y ago
    It's closer to stack ranking than a strict cutoff.
- thaeli 10y ago
  Uber doesn't disclose their exact process, of course, but it appears to be mostly stack ranking. Firing the bottom 10% or whatever ends up meaning around a 4.6 in most markets, but median driver ratings vary by market. The stack rank isn't immediate either, and may have factors such as number of trips driven. But that's basically what's going on. (I don't know specifically how this applies to UberPool ratings)
- m0llusk 10y ago
  Being ready to fire workers quickly leads to additional recruiting pressure, workforce churn, and ultimately lowers the quality of service.
ams6110 10y ago
Uber drivers are commercial drivers. There's no way around it. They should have a chauffeurs license at minimum and be subject to DOT limits on hours per week and hours per shift and hours between shifts.
- ProAm 10y ago
  It's ride sharing, they are not commercial drivers, besides the robots will be driving for us shortly. This is more a story about people needing to resort to Uber to make money and in a city not near their home because even Uber isnt enough money in their home town.
  - chrisan 10y ago
    Is it really ride sharing if you aren't sharing a destination with the driver? How is that ride share any different than a cab ride? I've used uber in SF, NY, and London. It's painfully clear they are a taxi service going from 1 "customer" to another. I'm sure there are ppl that legit share their ride to work, but I'd love to see the numbers of ride shares vs serial taxi-like behavior
    - ProAm 10y ago
      Legally it's ride sharing and that's all that really matters from a legal, economic or employment standpoint. The fact these people cannot find other jobs is the real problem.
      - gjjrfcbugxbhf 10y ago
        Actually legally it is whatever the law of the land says it is.
  - na85 10y ago
    >besides the robots will be driving for us shortly. Maybe in California. Up here in Canada, "the robots" are still paralyzed by the snowy roads that cover the huge majority of our roadways in the winter. I suspect that this is also true in large parts of Europe.
bdcravens 10y ago
There's a reason why Uber has taken almost $9B in funding. I say it's for a legal warchest: innovate without restriction and just deal with legal and ethical "messes" as they occur.
- hengheng 10y ago
  I remember when YouTube was bought by Google, they put aside $1B in a similar fashion to weather any legal troubles coming their way.
rosser 10y ago
This is why I use Lyft over Uber. It's anecdotal (though remarkably consistent, even accounting for confirmation bias), but when I get in an Uber — which isn't often; I don't even have the app installed on my device, so I'm only getting in one if I'm with someone else who summoned one — I can expect assholery in traffic. And I just don't see that with Lyft drivers, even when I'm riding with a driver who takes fares from both. It's like there's some sort of un- (or under-) stated thing amongst the Uber drivers, such that fare turnover beats traffic safety.
- eeeeeeeeeeeee 10y ago
  Lyft is more upfront about tipping too, which is why I prefer to use them now. I have issues with both, but Lyft seems to actually try to give the idea that they care about their "employees" whereas Uber seems to be on a literal crash course to making something work before self-driving cars can take over and they can fire all the humans.
  - CodeWriter23 10y ago
    In my experience, and I have driven for both, Lyft actually has been more humane to me in the role of driver. Uber's customer service (remember, drivers pay to use the network) is if you don't like it, you can leave. Lyft on the other hand has taken responsibility for every mistake they have made with me and has fixed it. They have also viewed my feedback about processes and offerings as a gift not a nuisance. And Lyft's incentives are geared in a way where they give a lot, even up to where it looks to me like a loss on paper, to any driver who is dedicated and is bringing something good to the table. The bottom line is, driver compensation sucks because people aren't willing to pay what the service is actually worth. They pay $10-$30 a day to Rideshare, and ignore the fact that a new car TCO is 2-3x that. And they get to spend their time doing something else instead of driving. Some people work, some socialize with their friends, some seek entertainment from their devices. And then there are those who avoid the $10,000 DUI.
    - xapata 10y ago
      Things are "worth" the price that the market will bear. If rides were worth more, at the current supply, then Lyft would charge more. Why should a new car be valued by market principles but rides not? To increase price, you must decrease supply.
SilasX 10y ago
I think that's a natural effect of finding something that "works, but not at scale". If you try to have as many drivers at the same driver cost that cab companies have[1], you have to keep digging deeper into the applicant pool for less desirable and more frantic drivers (who realize they need to do a lot of fares to come out ahead). Uber's use of technology has certainly delivered a better experience per dollar spent, but it still runs into these effects. [1] cab companies don't pay drivers directly, but there's an "implicit driver cost" that underlies how much they're able to rent the cabs for relative to the revenue drivers pull in

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

otoburb 10y ago

I heard anecdotally that drivers with ratings below 4.6 have their Uber driver accounts shutdown. In this instance, how would the rating work for drivers in an UberPool? Does each person's vote count for only 1/n, or is each one a full vote? If it's full votes for all riders in a single UberPool ride, all it probably takes are a couple of mediocre UberPool experiences and the driver is selected out of the driving pool.

civilian 10y ago
I thought it was anything below 4, but who knows. When I have unsafe drivers I aggressively rate them 1 or 2s depending on what it was. I know that it's "mean" to the driver, but I'm being kind to future passengers, pedestrians, and everyone who shares the road.
ryen 10y ago
I wouldn't believe any assumptions around how Uber ratings affect drivers. In many cities Uber's demand outweighs their pool of available drivers. Its not in their best interest to remove drivers from their platform other than the most egregious cases.
amyjess 10y ago
> I heard anecdotally that drivers with ratings below 4.6 have their Uber driver accounts shutdown. Uber and Lyft say they do this, but I've personally seen drivers with lower ratings kicking around. Anyone know what's up with that?
- thaeli 10y ago
  It's closer to stack ranking than a strict cutoff.
thaeli 10y ago
Uber doesn't disclose their exact process, of course, but it appears to be mostly stack ranking. Firing the bottom 10% or whatever ends up meaning around a 4.6 in most markets, but median driver ratings vary by market. The stack rank isn't immediate either, and may have factors such as number of trips driven. But that's basically what's going on. (I don't know specifically how this applies to UberPool ratings)
m0llusk 10y ago
Being ready to fire workers quickly leads to additional recruiting pressure, workforce churn, and ultimately lowers the quality of service.

ams6110 10y ago

Uber drivers are commercial drivers. There's no way around it. They should have a chauffeurs license at minimum and be subject to DOT limits on hours per week and hours per shift and hours between shifts.

ProAm 10y ago
It's ride sharing, they are not commercial drivers, besides the robots will be driving for us shortly. This is more a story about people needing to resort to Uber to make money and in a city not near their home because even Uber isnt enough money in their home town.
- chrisan 10y ago
  Is it really ride sharing if you aren't sharing a destination with the driver? How is that ride share any different than a cab ride? I've used uber in SF, NY, and London. It's painfully clear they are a taxi service going from 1 "customer" to another. I'm sure there are ppl that legit share their ride to work, but I'd love to see the numbers of ride shares vs serial taxi-like behavior
  - ProAm 10y ago
    Legally it's ride sharing and that's all that really matters from a legal, economic or employment standpoint. The fact these people cannot find other jobs is the real problem.
    - gjjrfcbugxbhf 10y ago
      Actually legally it is whatever the law of the land says it is.
- na85 10y ago
  >besides the robots will be driving for us shortly. Maybe in California. Up here in Canada, "the robots" are still paralyzed by the snowy roads that cover the huge majority of our roadways in the winter. I suspect that this is also true in large parts of Europe.

bdcravens 10y ago

There's a reason why Uber has taken almost $9B in funding. I say it's for a legal warchest: innovate without restriction and just deal with legal and ethical "messes" as they occur.

hengheng 10y ago
I remember when YouTube was bought by Google, they put aside $1B in a similar fashion to weather any legal troubles coming their way.

rosser 10y ago

This is why I use Lyft over Uber. It's anecdotal (though remarkably consistent, even accounting for confirmation bias), but when I get in an Uber — which isn't often; I don't even have the app installed on my device, so I'm only getting in one if I'm with someone else who summoned one — I can expect assholery in traffic. And I just don't see that with Lyft drivers, even when I'm riding with a driver who takes fares from both. It's like there's some sort of un- (or under-) stated thing amongst the Uber drivers, such that fare turnover beats traffic safety.

eeeeeeeeeeeee 10y ago
Lyft is more upfront about tipping too, which is why I prefer to use them now. I have issues with both, but Lyft seems to actually try to give the idea that they care about their "employees" whereas Uber seems to be on a literal crash course to making something work before self-driving cars can take over and they can fire all the humans.
- CodeWriter23 10y ago
  In my experience, and I have driven for both, Lyft actually has been more humane to me in the role of driver. Uber's customer service (remember, drivers pay to use the network) is if you don't like it, you can leave. Lyft on the other hand has taken responsibility for every mistake they have made with me and has fixed it. They have also viewed my feedback about processes and offerings as a gift not a nuisance. And Lyft's incentives are geared in a way where they give a lot, even up to where it looks to me like a loss on paper, to any driver who is dedicated and is bringing something good to the table. The bottom line is, driver compensation sucks because people aren't willing to pay what the service is actually worth. They pay $10-$30 a day to Rideshare, and ignore the fact that a new car TCO is 2-3x that. And they get to spend their time doing something else instead of driving. Some people work, some socialize with their friends, some seek entertainment from their devices. And then there are those who avoid the $10,000 DUI.
  - xapata 10y ago
    Things are "worth" the price that the market will bear. If rides were worth more, at the current supply, then Lyft would charge more. Why should a new car be valued by market principles but rides not? To increase price, you must decrease supply.

SilasX 10y ago

I think that's a natural effect of finding something that "works, but not at scale". If you try to have as many drivers at the same driver cost that cab companies have[1], you have to keep digging deeper into the applicant pool for less desirable and more frantic drivers (who realize they need to do a lot of fares to come out ahead). Uber's use of technology has certainly delivered a better experience per dollar spent, but it still runs into these effects. [1] cab companies don't pay drivers directly, but there's an "implicit driver cost" that underlies how much they're able to rent the cabs for relative to the revenue drivers pull in