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abc_lisper specifically said: "every problem you do can be broken down into smaller problems, which can be worked independently and tested independently". Unle

by nickff 10y ago

abc_lisper specifically said: "every problem you do can be broken down into smaller problems, which can be worked independently and tested independently". Unless you delete or ignore "and tested" from that post, abc_lisper's approach definitely involves tests.

AnimalMuppet 10y ago
I stand corrected; what abc_lisper said definitely involves tests. That's not necessarily TDD, though; see my post at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13465459 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13465459 for the difference.
- nickff 10y ago
  I agree that abc_lisper did not 'exactly' describe test driven development, which is why I said he 'essentially' described test driven development. I am a believer in test driven development, yet I often write a bit of application code before I write the tests; I acknowledge that probably makes me a pariah, but I still keep tests (and TDD) in mind.
  - AnimalMuppet 10y ago
    Meh, I think TDD has value, but I don't think a methodology should become a religion. Write a bit of application before your tests, write most of the tests before the code, you're good to call it TDD in my book. (Of course, being non-religious about methodology may make me a pariah, and not just on TDD; but I can't work up the energy to care...)
thibauts 10y ago
Testing does not automatically imply automated tests. I do break down problems and follow the same kind of process, yet my goal is less automated testing than it is raw flexibility, ability to recombine pieces of code at will and move fast. Chasing automated tests, even if it supposedly yields this kind of composite constructs is in my opinion taking an interesting side-effect of good craft for an end in itself. Then of course, saying the code can be tested in isolation doesn't imply coding is driven by tests. TDD, in my opinion, like all idols in the history of cults is, as an end, the dawn of critical thinking and progress.

by nickff 10y ago

AnimalMuppet 10y ago

I stand corrected; what abc_lisper said definitely involves tests. That's not necessarily TDD, though; see my post at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13465459 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13465459 for the difference.

nickff 10y ago
I agree that abc_lisper did not 'exactly' describe test driven development, which is why I said he 'essentially' described test driven development. I am a believer in test driven development, yet I often write a bit of application code before I write the tests; I acknowledge that probably makes me a pariah, but I still keep tests (and TDD) in mind.
- AnimalMuppet 10y ago
  Meh, I think TDD has value, but I don't think a methodology should become a religion. Write a bit of application before your tests, write most of the tests before the code, you're good to call it TDD in my book. (Of course, being non-religious about methodology may make me a pariah, and not just on TDD; but I can't work up the energy to care...)

thibauts 10y ago

Testing does not automatically imply automated tests. I do break down problems and follow the same kind of process, yet my goal is less automated testing than it is raw flexibility, ability to recombine pieces of code at will and move fast. Chasing automated tests, even if it supposedly yields this kind of composite constructs is in my opinion taking an interesting side-effect of good craft for an end in itself. Then of course, saying the code can be tested in isolation doesn't imply coding is driven by tests. TDD, in my opinion, like all idols in the history of cults is, as an end, the dawn of critical thinking and progress.