3 ms·

Depends on the role and the schedule of the rest of the team. It's absolutely reasonable to expect someone in the office by 9am, in the same way that it's absol

by basseq 10y ago

Depends on the role and the schedule of the rest of the team. It's absolutely reasonable to expect someone in the office by 9am, in the same way that it's absolutely reasonable to work out an "alternate work schedule". And if you're the kind of person with a "non-traditional" sleep schedule, the onus is on you to ensure the environment you're joining will support that. The "I'll show up when I want" reeks of entitlement.

UK-AL 10y ago
I completely agree that this is an agreement between employee and employer. If the employer wants to pay more for the privilege on or or lose out on good employees for pure office working thats up to them. However the converse of "I'll show up when I want", in this case "I expect you turn up exactly when i say", is entitlement from the employer. It's just an established one.
- nilkn 10y ago
  > It's just an established one. I'd say that this is more important than your comment suggests. Across society at large, it's generally incredibly valuable that workers tend to work at the same time and be available to work together at the same time. This not only enhances productivity at work, but also enhances social lives since as a corollary it means that many workers tend to be off work at the same time too. If anybody you work with directly needs to work during the day, then in most cases you will need to work during the day as well -- otherwise you'd be hindering the ability of that person to communicate with you when they need to. For instance, maybe your boss has to work during normal business hours because he/she is in frequent communication with other business contacts. But your boss also needs to be able to get into contact with you on the spot, often to facilitate said communication with other contacts. So you pretty much need to work during normal hours now too. It's easy to see how the network effect of this can be very powerful, and I think this explains why there's an established asymmetry here between employer and employee.
  - UK-AL 10y ago
    Just because it's convient for employer doesn't mean it's not entitlement. There's plenty of necessary reasons to work from home to
madez 10y ago
It certainly is entitlement if the grandparent thinks it's righteous to lose all sympathy only because they are not willing to trade control over the sleep cycle for money. Don't assume everbody has yours, and don't judge them if they don't.
gregmac 10y ago
"I'll show up when I want" is totally reasonable so long as that's what the employer and employee agreed upon (eg, flex hours). As a person with a "non-traditional sleep schedule", and an employment agreement that allows me to work when I want, I do not apologize or even remotely feel bad for coming in after 9am, just as I don't look down on anyone that leaves at or before 5pm.

by basseq 10y ago

UK-AL 10y ago

I completely agree that this is an agreement between employee and employer. If the employer wants to pay more for the privilege on or or lose out on good employees for pure office working thats up to them. However the converse of "I'll show up when I want", in this case "I expect you turn up exactly when i say", is entitlement from the employer. It's just an established one.

nilkn 10y ago
> It's just an established one. I'd say that this is more important than your comment suggests. Across society at large, it's generally incredibly valuable that workers tend to work at the same time and be available to work together at the same time. This not only enhances productivity at work, but also enhances social lives since as a corollary it means that many workers tend to be off work at the same time too. If anybody you work with directly needs to work during the day, then in most cases you will need to work during the day as well -- otherwise you'd be hindering the ability of that person to communicate with you when they need to. For instance, maybe your boss has to work during normal business hours because he/she is in frequent communication with other business contacts. But your boss also needs to be able to get into contact with you on the spot, often to facilitate said communication with other contacts. So you pretty much need to work during normal hours now too. It's easy to see how the network effect of this can be very powerful, and I think this explains why there's an established asymmetry here between employer and employee.
- UK-AL 10y ago
  Just because it's convient for employer doesn't mean it's not entitlement. There's plenty of necessary reasons to work from home to

madez 10y ago

It certainly is entitlement if the grandparent thinks it's righteous to lose all sympathy only because they are not willing to trade control over the sleep cycle for money. Don't assume everbody has yours, and don't judge them if they don't.

gregmac 10y ago

"I'll show up when I want" is totally reasonable so long as that's what the employer and employee agreed upon (eg, flex hours). As a person with a "non-traditional sleep schedule", and an employment agreement that allows me to work when I want, I do not apologize or even remotely feel bad for coming in after 9am, just as I don't look down on anyone that leaves at or before 5pm.