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I also think it absurd to presume that there's zero benefit to having folks face-to-face from time-to-time. Wanna work from home 4 days out of 5? I say go nut

by zzalpha 10y ago

I also think it absurd to presume that there's zero benefit to having folks face-to-face from time-to-time. Wanna work from home 4 days out of 5? I say go nuts. But I would want some amount of face-to-face time, not to see asses in seats (which seems to be what every work-from-advocate assumes... as though there's no other concerns beyond accountability, a strawman if I've every seen one), but because it helps build team camaraderie. I've seen this first hand. I'm the Product Owner for geographically distributed team. Skype is used heavily as a mechanism for the team to communicate, but we also include quarterly face-to-face get-togethers where the team can sit in a room and whiteboard problems, pair program, or really whatever they want to do that feels useful. The first time we did this everyone, every single person, raved about how valuable the activity was. Not because they were inherently more productive, and certainly not because they were being held accountable. Rather, the simple act of people in a room together further cemented their bonds as a team. Humans are social animals. We're used to physical proximity as a component of communication. Hell, the NYT had an article about why it's hard to make friends after 30: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/fashion/the-challenge-of-making-friends-as-an-adult.html http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/fashion/the-challenge-of-m... Two of the three are proximity, and repeated, unplanned interactions. That's just not possibility in a 100% remote working environment.

geoka9 10y ago
> The first time we did this everyone, every single person, raved about how valuable the activity was. The first time, yes. But I'd rather not do this every day (or even every week). Once a quarter or so seems just about right.
- christophilus 10y ago
  Exactly. I work for a 100% remote company and have never been happier. I probably have been more productive in other places, but that's a factor of the tech stack C# vs Ruby. I'm focused, productive, and happy. I know and like my coworkers. We meet 1-2x per year for a company retreat, and we meet online weekly. Everything else is ad-hoc and works just fine.
arghIdontwantto 10y ago
The two times I did this with two separate teams I hated it. I'm a very social guy, so it isn't an introvert thing, but I work 100% remote, I don't want to meet and be confined to 'activities' or environments where I can't be productive. If I wanted to be in an office, I have plenty of job offers to do so. If I wanted to meet my co-workers on 'activities' (like the once a year retreats with parties and trust falls and what-not) I would join the local kumbaya group. Just thinking I have to travel for a week, away from my friends, my family my routines for someone to have face-to-face time with me that could have been done on skype/hangouts is ridiculous, and whenever I hear about yearly retreats/trips I pass on the job.
- zzalpha 10y ago
  like the once a year retreats with parties and trust falls and what-not Nice strawman! We got the team together, shared meals and drinks in the evening, and basically did engineering work during the day. The team took the opportunity to do some broader architectural work that needed doing, and to do some knowledge sharing across silos that had developed. Basically stuff that's more amenable to a room and a whiteboard. ie, they got some sh*t done while getting to know each other better. But hey, if you can't be bothered to spend face time with your team mates on occasion, I'm sure you can find organizations that will cater to your particular whims. Ours would not be one of them, that's all.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - arghIdontwantto 10y ago
    And that is great, my organization actually respects this and doesn't force me to go to any annual things. To each their own, but shared meals and drinks in the evening is for me too much. I work 8 hours for you, after I want to see my family or friends, not my co-workers. Or do sports, or whatever else. The problem with these retreats is 8+hours work and then off time with co-workers. I don't care about that. AT ALL.
- Arizhel 10y ago
amyjess 10y ago
> but we also include quarterly face-to-face get-togethers where the team can sit in a room and whiteboard problems, pair program, or really whatever they want to do that feels useful. To me, that sounds utterly horrifying. I'm unable to fly because of the TSA (I cannot tolerate being touched, and even the slightest risk of a pat-down is unacceptable). Any job where I'd be expected to fly cross-country is a job that I simply won't be able to do. I want my next job to be a remote job because I'm probably going to be moving soon, and I'd like to completely decouple "where I work" from "where I live". Even if I could fly, the idea of working a remote job where I'd have to travel defeats the whole purpose of working remote.

by zzalpha 10y ago

geoka9 10y ago

> The first time we did this everyone, every single person, raved about how valuable the activity was. The first time, yes. But I'd rather not do this every day (or even every week). Once a quarter or so seems just about right.

christophilus 10y ago
Exactly. I work for a 100% remote company and have never been happier. I probably have been more productive in other places, but that's a factor of the tech stack C# vs Ruby. I'm focused, productive, and happy. I know and like my coworkers. We meet 1-2x per year for a company retreat, and we meet online weekly. Everything else is ad-hoc and works just fine.

arghIdontwantto 10y ago

The two times I did this with two separate teams I hated it. I'm a very social guy, so it isn't an introvert thing, but I work 100% remote, I don't want to meet and be confined to 'activities' or environments where I can't be productive. If I wanted to be in an office, I have plenty of job offers to do so. If I wanted to meet my co-workers on 'activities' (like the once a year retreats with parties and trust falls and what-not) I would join the local kumbaya group. Just thinking I have to travel for a week, away from my friends, my family my routines for someone to have face-to-face time with me that could have been done on skype/hangouts is ridiculous, and whenever I hear about yearly retreats/trips I pass on the job.

zzalpha 10y ago
like the once a year retreats with parties and trust falls and what-not Nice strawman! We got the team together, shared meals and drinks in the evening, and basically did engineering work during the day. The team took the opportunity to do some broader architectural work that needed doing, and to do some knowledge sharing across silos that had developed. Basically stuff that's more amenable to a room and a whiteboard. ie, they got some sh*t done while getting to know each other better. But hey, if you can't be bothered to spend face time with your team mates on occasion, I'm sure you can find organizations that will cater to your particular whims. Ours would not be one of them, that's all.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- arghIdontwantto 10y ago
  And that is great, my organization actually respects this and doesn't force me to go to any annual things. To each their own, but shared meals and drinks in the evening is for me too much. I work 8 hours for you, after I want to see my family or friends, not my co-workers. Or do sports, or whatever else. The problem with these retreats is 8+hours work and then off time with co-workers. I don't care about that. AT ALL.
Arizhel 10y ago

amyjess 10y ago

> but we also include quarterly face-to-face get-togethers where the team can sit in a room and whiteboard problems, pair program, or really whatever they want to do that feels useful. To me, that sounds utterly horrifying. I'm unable to fly because of the TSA (I cannot tolerate being touched, and even the slightest risk of a pat-down is unacceptable). Any job where I'd be expected to fly cross-country is a job that I simply won't be able to do. I want my next job to be a remote job because I'm probably going to be moving soon, and I'd like to completely decouple "where I work" from "where I live". Even if I could fly, the idea of working a remote job where I'd have to travel defeats the whole purpose of working remote.