4 ms·

What brought you to Korea? Did you learn some of the Korean language before moving?

by da02 10y ago

sho_hn 10y ago
Yep, I went to school in Berlin to study Korean for quite some time before the move, along with self-study before that. Basically, at some point I turned my hobbies into my career, so I needed new hobbies/outlets and ended up picking "learn Korean" for a bunch of reasons (I had done some light work on a CJK input stack and feel in love with Hangeul in a geeky sort of way, a layman's interest in linguistics, some Korean colleagues/acquaintances and a strong interest in the pop culture and history - music, movies, contrasting Korea's 20th century with Germany's, etc.). Over time this and spending some time in the country changed the make-up of my social circle a lot (more and more people also learning Korean, or being involved with Korea somehow, e.g. ... being Korean :). Eventually I moved over and basically already had a support network of local friends and activities (people to hang out with, a weekly engineer meet-up, etc.) so it went pretty smoothly. I've been here long enough now that the honeymoon period is definitely over and I've seen a fair amount of the pressures/stresses of life in Korea either up-close or as people close to me went through them. Yet I enjoy so much of what's going in and what's available, and the people close to me, so it's a good life. Many Western foreigners in Korea are in a very different place. There's a large swath that came over in 2007-2011 as English teachers after the US recession, because $13.5/hour for English teaching in Seoul beat $7.50/hour at Starbucks in Des Moines, and that's all they could do with a sub-optimal undergrad degree. Yet that job offers a promotion path to almost none (along with many English schools in Korea being more or less scam businesses, not-so-wholesome) and they often don't acquire any marketable skills good for anything else while doing it, and the money made as an English teacher isn't good enough to support anything but a bachelor lifestyle in Seoul. And they often don't speak Korean and don't feel any strong ties to Korean culture. That can get pretty stressful and frustrating.
- mikekchar 10y ago
  That's really interesting because it is very similar to my reasons for going to Japan. I made a semi-random choice to learn Japanese. Because I was busy with work, I couldn't really afford the time to study properly and I made the fateful decision to move to Japan so that learning Japanese would be one of my job requirements ;-) I really think that language is a gateway to the culture. It hacks with your mind so that things you wouldn't accept without the language, seem completely reasonable with it. In Japan (and I suspect it might be similar in Korea) language is often the only real barrier for being accepted by other people in the culture. You go from being some scary foreigner, to being a semi-celebrity that everyone wants to talk to (hmmm... it probably helps that I live in the countryside ;-) ).
  - brutus1213 10y ago
    I'm really interested learning mandarin some day day. Can you describe how you managed to get started with Japanese? I have a 1 year old so all free time currently goes to her and the Mrs. I think I also don't work very efficiently .. so need to fix that too.
    - mikekchar 10y ago
      Ha ha! I really need to write this down in a central location (again... because I slowly refine my opinion). As briefly as I can put it: Strap on the seat belt because you will be working on the language for a long time if your goal is adult level proficiency and fluency. 5 year olds have about a 5000 word vocabulary and add about 1000 words every year until they reach about 18-20 (depending on if they go to university). There are about 1500 grammar structures to learn in an average language (this last stat is pulled out of my ass, but I think it's about right). There is no course, nor video, nor software that will get you anywhere beyond absolute beginner level. You will be lucky if you manage to talk like a 5 year old. Very long story short (and slightly controversial): You will acquire language by comprehending input that is repeated enough times to remember it. I personally believe that you need to also have a way to test your assumptions (but my opinion is not echoed in the scientific literature -- just my opinion). Way to success: Learn to read. It is your secret weapon. Pinyin is fine for helping you learn the readings for hanzi, but do not get into the habit of reading pinyin. There are about 3600 (IIRC) Chinese characters that you need to know to be functionally literate (there are others in use, but you will be able to devine there meanings through context). The Chinese characters are made up of building blocks and are not especially difficult to learn. They also provide a very powerful mnemonic for vocabulary. Remember that if your goal is adult level proficiency, you will need 15K+ words. The 3K characters will dramatically increase the speed at which you can learn the vocabulary because the system is very logical. My biggest suggestion is to read. Whatever you like. However, since there is a strong tradition of manwa (comic books) in Chinese, which handily use conversational language, this would be my way to go. Learn grammar through example. Some people like to learn grammar. You can, but you don't have to. It's a double edged sword. It helps you figure out the meaning of sentences. However, it also makes you believe that you can construct sentences using these rules and have it make sense. This is incorrect. This is why non-native speakers have all these bizarre grammar ticks when they speak. Use spaced repetition software to help you (I recommend Anki). There should be a vocabulary list of the basic words somewhere. The first 2-3000 of these are probably worth memorising. After that you should switch your focus to learning vocabulary through context (because the meanings will be subtly different than their English counterparts). Read, read, read. Last piece of advice is the most important and feel free to ignore everything else I've said. If you do not do this, I think it is impossible to succeed: Study every day. Better to study twice a day. Better to study three times a day. 5 minutes 3 times a day is better than 30 minutes once a day. 30 minutes once a day is better than 7 hours once a week. (And in fact, anything less than 4 times a week will have you reaching a ceiling pretty quickly and staying there forever). Also: Never give up. Good luck!

What brought you to Korea? Did you learn some of the Korean language before moving?

by da02 10y ago

What brought you to Korea? Did you learn some of the Korean language before moving?

Yep, I went to school in Berlin to study Korean for quite some time before the move, along with self-study before that. Basically, at some point I turned my hobbies into my career, so I needed new hobbies/outlets and ended up picking "learn Korean" for a bunch of reasons (I had done some light work on a CJK input stack and feel in love with Hangeul in a geeky sort of way, a layman's interest in linguistics, some Korean colleagues/acquaintances and a strong interest in the pop culture and history - music, movies, contrasting Korea's 20th century with Germany's, etc.). Over time this and spending some time in the country changed the make-up of my social circle a lot (more and more people also learning Korean, or being involved with Korea somehow, e.g. ... being Korean :). Eventually I moved over and basically already had a support network of local friends and activities (people to hang out with, a weekly engineer meet-up, etc.) so it went pretty smoothly. I've been here long enough now that the honeymoon period is definitely over and I've seen a fair amount of the pressures/stresses of life in Korea either up-close or as people close to me went through them. Yet I enjoy so much of what's going in and what's available, and the people close to me, so it's a good life. Many Western foreigners in Korea are in a very different place. There's a large swath that came over in 2007-2011 as English teachers after the US recession, because $13.5/hour for English teaching in Seoul beat $7.50/hour at Starbucks in Des Moines, and that's all they could do with a sub-optimal undergrad degree. Yet that job offers a promotion path to almost none (along with many English schools in Korea being more or less scam businesses, not-so-wholesome) and they often don't acquire any marketable skills good for anything else while doing it, and the money made as an English teacher isn't good enough to support anything but a bachelor lifestyle in Seoul. And they often don't speak Korean and don't feel any strong ties to Korean culture. That can get pretty stressful and frustrating.

mikekchar 10y ago
That's really interesting because it is very similar to my reasons for going to Japan. I made a semi-random choice to learn Japanese. Because I was busy with work, I couldn't really afford the time to study properly and I made the fateful decision to move to Japan so that learning Japanese would be one of my job requirements ;-) I really think that language is a gateway to the culture. It hacks with your mind so that things you wouldn't accept without the language, seem completely reasonable with it. In Japan (and I suspect it might be similar in Korea) language is often the only real barrier for being accepted by other people in the culture. You go from being some scary foreigner, to being a semi-celebrity that everyone wants to talk to (hmmm... it probably helps that I live in the countryside ;-) ).
- brutus1213 10y ago
  I'm really interested learning mandarin some day day. Can you describe how you managed to get started with Japanese? I have a 1 year old so all free time currently goes to her and the Mrs. I think I also don't work very efficiently .. so need to fix that too.
  - mikekchar 10y ago
    Ha ha! I really need to write this down in a central location (again... because I slowly refine my opinion). As briefly as I can put it: Strap on the seat belt because you will be working on the language for a long time if your goal is adult level proficiency and fluency. 5 year olds have about a 5000 word vocabulary and add about 1000 words every year until they reach about 18-20 (depending on if they go to university). There are about 1500 grammar structures to learn in an average language (this last stat is pulled out of my ass, but I think it's about right). There is no course, nor video, nor software that will get you anywhere beyond absolute beginner level. You will be lucky if you manage to talk like a 5 year old. Very long story short (and slightly controversial): You will acquire language by comprehending input that is repeated enough times to remember it. I personally believe that you need to also have a way to test your assumptions (but my opinion is not echoed in the scientific literature -- just my opinion). Way to success: Learn to read. It is your secret weapon. Pinyin is fine for helping you learn the readings for hanzi, but do not get into the habit of reading pinyin. There are about 3600 (IIRC) Chinese characters that you need to know to be functionally literate (there are others in use, but you will be able to devine there meanings through context). The Chinese characters are made up of building blocks and are not especially difficult to learn. They also provide a very powerful mnemonic for vocabulary. Remember that if your goal is adult level proficiency, you will need 15K+ words. The 3K characters will dramatically increase the speed at which you can learn the vocabulary because the system is very logical. My biggest suggestion is to read. Whatever you like. However, since there is a strong tradition of manwa (comic books) in Chinese, which handily use conversational language, this would be my way to go. Learn grammar through example. Some people like to learn grammar. You can, but you don't have to. It's a double edged sword. It helps you figure out the meaning of sentences. However, it also makes you believe that you can construct sentences using these rules and have it make sense. This is incorrect. This is why non-native speakers have all these bizarre grammar ticks when they speak. Use spaced repetition software to help you (I recommend Anki). There should be a vocabulary list of the basic words somewhere. The first 2-3000 of these are probably worth memorising. After that you should switch your focus to learning vocabulary through context (because the meanings will be subtly different than their English counterparts). Read, read, read. Last piece of advice is the most important and feel free to ignore everything else I've said. If you do not do this, I think it is impossible to succeed: Study every day. Better to study twice a day. Better to study three times a day. 5 minutes 3 times a day is better than 30 minutes once a day. 30 minutes once a day is better than 7 hours once a week. (And in fact, anything less than 4 times a week will have you reaching a ceiling pretty quickly and staying there forever). Also: Never give up. Good luck!