3 ms·

I've noticed a rather sad correlation of passionate software developers that are interested in the trade with low pay. At this point, I don't even know if emplo

by disease 10y ago

I've noticed a rather sad correlation of passionate software developers that are interested in the trade with low pay. At this point, I don't even know if employers are legitimately interested in "hiring the best". In my experience companies that aren't Google or Microsoft generally just want to hire the cheapest possible labor. If they luck out and get a strong engineer that can't effectively negotiate for themselves, that's just the icing on the cake. Note that I'm currently doing software development in the Midwest, so my view may be biased.

Bartweiss 10y ago
Having worked in the Midwest, I had a lot of terrible experiences I haven't seen replicated on either coast. There seem to be a lot of midwestern companies full of programmers, selling software products, which don't see themselves as "software companies" (like Yahoo is a "media company"). Without exception, I found that those companies were trying to buy code like it came off an assembly line - paying lots of people low wages to pump out their daily lines. Some of the "smarter" ones had realized that this offer was so unpalatable that they couldn't get existing programmers, and were shipping new hires to bootcamps to create candidates. (Cynically, I assume that they have an incentive to ensure these bootcamps teach bad, cargo-cult programming - if they were good they'd quickly lose trainees to better jobs.) Job hunting out there, at least half the prospects I turned up had something hideously bad involved. Some mandated novice-bootcamp attendance, starting even experienced devs at "See Spot run, see Spot code". Some wanted 6 month (or 1 year!) trial periods on minimal salary or even sub-minimum stipends. Some just wanted the usual bullshit like "5 years of Java 8 experience". Many had ludicrous location requirements, like cycling through shifts in offices around the country before ending up in rural Montana. Pretty much all of it felt like commodity purchasing - I wasn't an employee, I was an agreement to deliver "six codes per week". Moving back to the coast, and seeing a lot of self-described software companies, I have a lot more hope that people are at least trying to hire well. There are just a lot of companies which haven't gotten the message.
- crdoconnor 10y ago
  I had a similar experience in Singapore before moving back to the UK.
- bsg75 10y ago
  Creating a new sub-industry of well paid experienced developers who repair bad implementations. Not sure if this is a good or bad thing.
HeyLaughingBoy 10y ago
I've noticed a rather sad correlation of passionate software developers that are interested in the trade with low pay This isn't confined to developers. You find the same dynamic in commercial pilots (making an exception for Airline Transport Pilots with thousands of hours of experience!) and Park Rangers: enough well-qualified people want to do the work so badly that the pay remains very low.
OpenDrapery 10y ago
I'm still looking for a dev job in Columbus, OH where I can be part of the engineering team, and not part of IT. Seems that all of the dev jobs are in the IT cost center around here.

by disease 10y ago

Bartweiss 10y ago

Having worked in the Midwest, I had a lot of terrible experiences I haven't seen replicated on either coast. There seem to be a lot of midwestern companies full of programmers, selling software products, which don't see themselves as "software companies" (like Yahoo is a "media company"). Without exception, I found that those companies were trying to buy code like it came off an assembly line - paying lots of people low wages to pump out their daily lines. Some of the "smarter" ones had realized that this offer was so unpalatable that they couldn't get existing programmers, and were shipping new hires to bootcamps to create candidates. (Cynically, I assume that they have an incentive to ensure these bootcamps teach bad, cargo-cult programming - if they were good they'd quickly lose trainees to better jobs.) Job hunting out there, at least half the prospects I turned up had something hideously bad involved. Some mandated novice-bootcamp attendance, starting even experienced devs at "See Spot run, see Spot code". Some wanted 6 month (or 1 year!) trial periods on minimal salary or even sub-minimum stipends. Some just wanted the usual bullshit like "5 years of Java 8 experience". Many had ludicrous location requirements, like cycling through shifts in offices around the country before ending up in rural Montana. Pretty much all of it felt like commodity purchasing - I wasn't an employee, I was an agreement to deliver "six codes per week". Moving back to the coast, and seeing a lot of self-described software companies, I have a lot more hope that people are at least trying to hire well. There are just a lot of companies which haven't gotten the message.

crdoconnor 10y ago
I had a similar experience in Singapore before moving back to the UK.
bsg75 10y ago
Creating a new sub-industry of well paid experienced developers who repair bad implementations. Not sure if this is a good or bad thing.

HeyLaughingBoy 10y ago

I've noticed a rather sad correlation of passionate software developers that are interested in the trade with low pay This isn't confined to developers. You find the same dynamic in commercial pilots (making an exception for Airline Transport Pilots with thousands of hours of experience!) and Park Rangers: enough well-qualified people want to do the work so badly that the pay remains very low.

OpenDrapery 10y ago

I'm still looking for a dev job in Columbus, OH where I can be part of the engineering team, and not part of IT. Seems that all of the dev jobs are in the IT cost center around here.