4 ms·
Not parent, but whatever their plan is, energy density is limited by the technology, not the will. It's not like Panasonic could manufacture battery with twice
by nolok 10y ago
Not parent, but whatever their plan is, energy density is limited by the technology, not the will. It's not like Panasonic could manufacture battery with twice the energy density if they wanted to, with some tech they're hiding in their back pocket.
As for the "gigafactory", it's Tesla trying to get into that closed market, like parent said there are only a few big players and it's not very welcoming to new ones, Tesla's plan is to be so big that they can have a big supply to sell in bulk AND to also be (together with solar city I guess) one of their first big scale customer.
- ryao 10y agoI think you mean the electro-chemical cell. Batteries are just bundles of electrochemical cells (and 1 cell can be a bundle). I am far from an expert on this, but tighter packing of electrochemical cells could improve density.
- owenversteeg 10y ago> Batteries are just bundles of electrochemical cells (and 1 cell can be a bundle) Correct. The problem with packing cells tighter is heat production: a ridiculous amount of heat is released and the individual cells can get up to 80 degrees C / 176 F. (80C is not a "doomsday scenario"; most cells are rated to sit there running at 80C just fine.) When they're all next to each other, tightly packed in with no place for heat to go, you're screwed. The other reason is that volumetric density is usually not what people optimize for; gravimetric density is more useful most of the time, and in that case you don't really have any reason to use tighter packing.
- ufo 10y agoWhy is gravimetric density more important than volumetric density? That sounds counter intuitive to me.
- owenversteeg 10y agoPlaces where gravimetric density is more important: - Electric vehicles - Aircraft - R/C - Anything that goes into space - Large scale energy storage (good energy density typically = less lithium used) - Generally: anything that moves Places where both are equally important: - Consumer electronics (you don't want an ultra slim 2lb phone, or a ultra thick featherweight phone) Places where volumetric density is more important: - Batteries in smartcards - Some medical devices - Certain flashlights, IoT devices You'll notice that there are a lot more things where people care more about gravimetric density. Also, the best Li-Ion cells for volumetric density that you can buy are rather inconvenient shapes; a favorite is the 18650, an 18mm diameter by 65mm long cylinder. Yes, the best 18650 technically has much better volumetric density than the iPhone batteries. But if you swapped the iPhone battery with an 18650 you'd have a hilarious looking semi-cylinder protruding from the back.
- tekromancr 10y agoBecause nobody seems to want a 4 pound cellphone battery.
- owenversteeg 10y ago> energy density is limited by the technology, not the will Spot on. Musk is a fascinating guy but he's not magic; energy density hasn't improved in 11 years with ridiculous amounts of cash thrown at it and I don't think Tesla will be the one to make a breakthrough. > As for the "gigafactory", it's Tesla trying to get into that closed market Tesla is actually partnered with Panasonic, which is one of the big battery makers and one of the three that actually make cutting-edge cells. Tesla's "plan" as far as I can tell is to make and sell batteries as cheap as they can, especially since the cells they are making right now aren't interesting in any other aspect than price.
- blktiger 10y agoFrom what I can tell, Tesla has been focused on making their batteries _cheaper_ at the moment so they get the best deal possible on their batteries. They aren't really trying to make "better" batteries because they need to scale up their production first to meet Model 3 demand.