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Not to be that guy, but what happened to being a decent human being and just getting up for pregnant women and elderly people? Do we really need an app for that

Not to be that guy, but what happened to being a decent human being and just getting up for pregnant women and elderly people? Do we really need an app for that now? As a founder I really do see lot's of value in technology to drive our society forwards, but I just can't wrap my head around some stuff..

waldfee 10y ago
Also simply asking people to give over their seat. That's exactly what the app does. Why not ask people directly? Just to avoid having to talk to them? Seems very strange to me.
- michaelt 10y ago
  Why not ask people directly? Imagine public transport was full of 90% polite people who would happily give up their seat, and 10% assholes who'd get in your face for no good reason. And you couldn't tell those people apart. If all the polite people had the app installed, using it would let you address them and avoid the 10%.
  - StavrosK 10y ago
    Imagine if public transport was full of 90% polite people, and 10% full of selfish people, who'd say "sorry, no". Then this app wouldn't have to exist.
  - colanderman 10y ago
    Or just ask loud enough so that the potential-asshole and his two neighbors hear, giving you a 99.9% chance of getting a seat, and a 0% chance of getting chewed out because no-one acts like a dick to a pregnant woman on a crowded subway for obvious reasons.
- ajdlinux 10y ago
  If you're adequately introverted/shy (which is me, most of the time) or just feeling tired/exhausted/drained (which I imagine is not atypical for expectant mothers), then I can understand not having the energy to ask something of a stranger on the train.
ENTP 10y ago
Whilst I agree with you, the London Underground does not really foster an environment where people would feel comfortable with that.
- mnkypete 10y ago
  Yeah, I could picture that.. True.. Not really often in London, but riding the Underground wasn't something you'd do for fun..
- robjan 10y ago
  I use the tube every day and rarely see a situation where people don't instinctively stand for pregnant or elderly people. People don't want to talk to one another but we locals are generally courteous.
  - pyb 10y ago
    I've often seen very elderly people left standing in the tube.
TulliusCicero 10y ago
To play devil's advocate, early on, pregnancy may not be visible, and even when it appears to be visible...they might just be fat. And you really don't want to make that particular mistake.
- Svenskunganka 10y ago
  Just politely ask someone if you could have their seat because you're pregnant? Which is like, what this app is doing.
  - chrisseaton 10y ago
    This could end up being very awkward if the person needed the seat themselves for a medical reason, or just says no for whatever other reason.
    - pc86 10y ago
      The "easy" solution is that it needs to be acceptable to say "no" when someone asks you for your seat, regardless of whatever outwardly obvious physical conditions the two parties have.
    - rebuilder 10y ago
      Talking to people can lead to awkward situations. It's not the end of the world.
      - chrisseaton 10y ago
        Are apps only useful if they prevent the end of the world? What's wrong with making things just a little easier?
        rebuilder 10y ago
        I wasn't really under the impression we were strictly discussing the app anymore. But on that subject, I do think the cure may be worse than the disease in this case - this app helps alleviate a minor inconvenience in the short term by making it easier to avoid human contact, the lack of which is arguably the reason people aren't behaving well in the first place.
jgrahamc 10y ago
I have literally once offered my seat to a pregnant woman on the Tube in London and it turned out that she was just overweight round the middle and not pregnant. It was extremely embarrassing for both of us. I greatly appreciate the women who wear these badges: https://tfl.gov.uk/forms/23479.aspx https://tfl.gov.uk/forms/23479.aspx because it makes it unambiguous. It can honestly be hard on a packed London underground train to tell the difference between a pregnant woman and someone who is simply overweight.
- esja 10y ago
  That experience is almost a rite of passage for Londoners :-)
- nothrabannosir 10y ago
  In your defence, offering up your seat to anyone is a respectable thing to do, regardless of pregnancy or weight.
- supergreg 10y ago
  That happens to me and elderly people. I never know when they are elderly enough to offer my seat.
  - Cerium 10y ago
    If they are noticeably older and you can handle standing there is no harm giving up your seat.
  - colanderman 10y ago
    My rule is, if they use a cane or walker, are visibly hunched, are steadying themselves with both hands, or seem to be actively looking for a seat, I get up. Otherwise no. (The older population in Boston is pretty fit; if I offered my seat to everyone with grey hair I think I'd insult quite a few perfectly hale people.) Also, pregnant women tend to hold their bellies. Overweight people don't. And if you accidentally offer your seat to someone who's chubby and has indigestion, well just tell them they looked like they had indigestion.
- 10y ago
sjcsjc 10y ago
If I spot someone whom I think might be pregnant I just stand up without comment. I don't want to make the mistake someone made with a female relative of mine: "Oh, are you expecting? Would you like to sit down?", to which she replied with a smile "No thanks, I'm just fat".
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  And I thought it's nerds who are socially awkward... I can't see such things as anything else as trying to use technology to avoid the possibility of embarrassment that comes with dealing with other people.
- frobozz 10y ago
  This is what I do, and it wins for all sorts of reasons, not just the avoidance of mistaking flab for a foetus. If you are doing this, the likelihood is that there is someone more in need of a seat than you, and possibly for invisible reasons (e.g. carrying a minor leg injury, first trimester of pregnancy, or just tired). Some people in a certain age range (mid-late 60s) may be grateful for a seat, but don't want to think of themselves as old enough to warrant being offered a seat. The person you think you are getting up for may not want to sit. When my wife was pregnant, she was inundated with offers of seats. She often refused, because on shorter journeys, the effort involved in sitting down and standing up again was greater than that of just standing all the way.
jeffwass 10y ago
Agreed. Especially that they're charging £3.99 for it. I'm also surprised to see this on BBC of all places, since Transport for London specifically makes "Baby on Board" buttons for pregnant women to wear to make it more obvious for commuters. https://tfl.gov.uk/forms/23479.aspx https://tfl.gov.uk/forms/23479.aspx I think some commuters might be just oblivious to the need some of pregnant and elderly folks, without actually trying to intentionally deny them a seat. I feel that raising awareness instead of reverting to an app, is a better long-term approach. When my wife was pregnant (this was in London) she would specifically ask people if she could have their seat. Nobody ever refused, nor did they even appear annoyed. Even in very crowded carriages.
Tharre 10y ago
The last time I tried to offer my seat to a obviously pregnant women she responded with: "No thanks, I'm pregnant, not a cripple.". So yeah it's complicated sometimes ...
- cs02rm0 10y ago
  Yeah, my wife's said similar to me in the past. Of course, you can't argue when they're pregnant. My wife's 8 months pregnant with twins at the moment; I think she's probably at the point of admitting defeat but she's so enormous now people dive off their seats from a mile away anyway. Not a hope in hell of getting her to pay £4 for this, or of anyone in a seat having the app I'd imagine either.
- yomly 10y ago
  I think the rationale is not that a woman can't stand when she's pregnant but that in sitting lowers risk for an accident - e.g. the train suddenly stopping unexpectedly or even people just having more people bunched around you when standing. When sitting, you have a more defined space around you and people tend to stand further away from people who are sitting.
- balls187 10y ago
  Not really complicated. Just sounds like she is a shitty human being.
balls187 10y ago
Blame the parents who never bothered to teach their children how to properly behave in society. "Why should I have to give up my seat to someone just because they didn't use birth control?"
TallGuyShort 10y ago
The detail you and a lot of other respondents seem to be missing is that they actually did do research (at least it sounds like they ran some focus groups), and one of the things they discovered is that pregnant women were feeling the most ill and in need of a seat the most were early in their pregnancy and not showing yet. I'm sure many would feel uncomfortable asking someone to move for them, so having an established non-confrontational mechanism could help. On the other hand, I would echo many of the sentiments in this thread - I make it a point to stand unless there are many empty seats, but I've also been spontaneously engaged for an argument by a women who was insulted that I stood after she boarded the train. So I often just stand the whole time to avoid it all.

waldfee 10y ago

Also simply asking people to give over their seat. That's exactly what the app does. Why not ask people directly? Just to avoid having to talk to them? Seems very strange to me.

michaelt 10y ago
Why not ask people directly? Imagine public transport was full of 90% polite people who would happily give up their seat, and 10% assholes who'd get in your face for no good reason. And you couldn't tell those people apart. If all the polite people had the app installed, using it would let you address them and avoid the 10%.
- StavrosK 10y ago
  Imagine if public transport was full of 90% polite people, and 10% full of selfish people, who'd say "sorry, no". Then this app wouldn't have to exist.
- colanderman 10y ago
  Or just ask loud enough so that the potential-asshole and his two neighbors hear, giving you a 99.9% chance of getting a seat, and a 0% chance of getting chewed out because no-one acts like a dick to a pregnant woman on a crowded subway for obvious reasons.
ajdlinux 10y ago
If you're adequately introverted/shy (which is me, most of the time) or just feeling tired/exhausted/drained (which I imagine is not atypical for expectant mothers), then I can understand not having the energy to ask something of a stranger on the train.

ENTP 10y ago

Whilst I agree with you, the London Underground does not really foster an environment where people would feel comfortable with that.

mnkypete 10y ago
Yeah, I could picture that.. True.. Not really often in London, but riding the Underground wasn't something you'd do for fun..
robjan 10y ago
I use the tube every day and rarely see a situation where people don't instinctively stand for pregnant or elderly people. People don't want to talk to one another but we locals are generally courteous.
- pyb 10y ago
  I've often seen very elderly people left standing in the tube.

TulliusCicero 10y ago

To play devil's advocate, early on, pregnancy may not be visible, and even when it appears to be visible...they might just be fat. And you really don't want to make that particular mistake.

Svenskunganka 10y ago
Just politely ask someone if you could have their seat because you're pregnant? Which is like, what this app is doing.
- chrisseaton 10y ago
  This could end up being very awkward if the person needed the seat themselves for a medical reason, or just says no for whatever other reason.
  - pc86 10y ago
    The "easy" solution is that it needs to be acceptable to say "no" when someone asks you for your seat, regardless of whatever outwardly obvious physical conditions the two parties have.
  - rebuilder 10y ago
    Talking to people can lead to awkward situations. It's not the end of the world.
    - chrisseaton 10y ago
      Are apps only useful if they prevent the end of the world? What's wrong with making things just a little easier?
      - rebuilder 10y ago
        I wasn't really under the impression we were strictly discussing the app anymore. But on that subject, I do think the cure may be worse than the disease in this case - this app helps alleviate a minor inconvenience in the short term by making it easier to avoid human contact, the lack of which is arguably the reason people aren't behaving well in the first place.

jgrahamc 10y ago

I have literally once offered my seat to a pregnant woman on the Tube in London and it turned out that she was just overweight round the middle and not pregnant. It was extremely embarrassing for both of us. I greatly appreciate the women who wear these badges: https://tfl.gov.uk/forms/23479.aspx https://tfl.gov.uk/forms/23479.aspx because it makes it unambiguous. It can honestly be hard on a packed London underground train to tell the difference between a pregnant woman and someone who is simply overweight.

esja 10y ago
That experience is almost a rite of passage for Londoners :-)
nothrabannosir 10y ago
In your defence, offering up your seat to anyone is a respectable thing to do, regardless of pregnancy or weight.
supergreg 10y ago
That happens to me and elderly people. I never know when they are elderly enough to offer my seat.
- Cerium 10y ago
  If they are noticeably older and you can handle standing there is no harm giving up your seat.
- colanderman 10y ago
  My rule is, if they use a cane or walker, are visibly hunched, are steadying themselves with both hands, or seem to be actively looking for a seat, I get up. Otherwise no. (The older population in Boston is pretty fit; if I offered my seat to everyone with grey hair I think I'd insult quite a few perfectly hale people.) Also, pregnant women tend to hold their bellies. Overweight people don't. And if you accidentally offer your seat to someone who's chubby and has indigestion, well just tell them they looked like they had indigestion.
10y ago

sjcsjc 10y ago

If I spot someone whom I think might be pregnant I just stand up without comment. I don't want to make the mistake someone made with a female relative of mine: "Oh, are you expecting? Would you like to sit down?", to which she replied with a smile "No thanks, I'm just fat".

TeMPOraL 10y ago
And I thought it's nerds who are socially awkward... I can't see such things as anything else as trying to use technology to avoid the possibility of embarrassment that comes with dealing with other people.
frobozz 10y ago
This is what I do, and it wins for all sorts of reasons, not just the avoidance of mistaking flab for a foetus. If you are doing this, the likelihood is that there is someone more in need of a seat than you, and possibly for invisible reasons (e.g. carrying a minor leg injury, first trimester of pregnancy, or just tired). Some people in a certain age range (mid-late 60s) may be grateful for a seat, but don't want to think of themselves as old enough to warrant being offered a seat. The person you think you are getting up for may not want to sit. When my wife was pregnant, she was inundated with offers of seats. She often refused, because on shorter journeys, the effort involved in sitting down and standing up again was greater than that of just standing all the way.

jeffwass 10y ago

Agreed. Especially that they're charging £3.99 for it. I'm also surprised to see this on BBC of all places, since Transport for London specifically makes "Baby on Board" buttons for pregnant women to wear to make it more obvious for commuters. https://tfl.gov.uk/forms/23479.aspx https://tfl.gov.uk/forms/23479.aspx I think some commuters might be just oblivious to the need some of pregnant and elderly folks, without actually trying to intentionally deny them a seat. I feel that raising awareness instead of reverting to an app, is a better long-term approach. When my wife was pregnant (this was in London) she would specifically ask people if she could have their seat. Nobody ever refused, nor did they even appear annoyed. Even in very crowded carriages.

Tharre 10y ago

The last time I tried to offer my seat to a obviously pregnant women she responded with: "No thanks, I'm pregnant, not a cripple.". So yeah it's complicated sometimes ...

cs02rm0 10y ago
Yeah, my wife's said similar to me in the past. Of course, you can't argue when they're pregnant. My wife's 8 months pregnant with twins at the moment; I think she's probably at the point of admitting defeat but she's so enormous now people dive off their seats from a mile away anyway. Not a hope in hell of getting her to pay £4 for this, or of anyone in a seat having the app I'd imagine either.
yomly 10y ago
I think the rationale is not that a woman can't stand when she's pregnant but that in sitting lowers risk for an accident - e.g. the train suddenly stopping unexpectedly or even people just having more people bunched around you when standing. When sitting, you have a more defined space around you and people tend to stand further away from people who are sitting.
balls187 10y ago
Not really complicated. Just sounds like she is a shitty human being.

balls187 10y ago

Blame the parents who never bothered to teach their children how to properly behave in society. "Why should I have to give up my seat to someone just because they didn't use birth control?"

TallGuyShort 10y ago

The detail you and a lot of other respondents seem to be missing is that they actually did do research (at least it sounds like they ran some focus groups), and one of the things they discovered is that pregnant women were feeling the most ill and in need of a seat the most were early in their pregnancy and not showing yet. I'm sure many would feel uncomfortable asking someone to move for them, so having an established non-confrontational mechanism could help. On the other hand, I would echo many of the sentiments in this thread - I make it a point to stand unless there are many empty seats, but I've also been spontaneously engaged for an argument by a women who was insulted that I stood after she boarded the train. So I often just stand the whole time to avoid it all.