5 ms·

A lot of people in this country really hates Obama. And it seems, when you take out all the other ugliness, they base that hate on the idea that he is not genui

by vinhboy 10y ago

A lot of people in this country really hates Obama. And it seems, when you take out all the other ugliness, they base that hate on the idea that he is not genuine. > President Obama was the first to come up with a deliberate and explicit practice of 10 letters every day. But reading things like this, and a myriad of other things about Obama, I think that if you could scientifically quantify genuineness, Obama would rank at the very top. So I find it really offensive when people attack the man on his integrity. You can attack his policy, but if you attack the man, I can not, and will not, agree with you.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
agumonkey 10y ago
Seems like Obama was put on a spot more than other presidents. He could say the right things, act the right way[1]; yet if at any point something negative came (drones, nsa) he would be bashed generously. People expect A+ from him and scream at an A-. The sad part is that Trump is said to have been elected because he was felt like a true person; I understand their sentiment, his mouth seems unfiltered, so he's a true nasty person but people still prefer that to someone that looks like 90% good samaritan. [1] you can find lots of videos where he would adress antagonistic crowds peacefully and wisely. Lots of times where he showed caring (his behavior toward his wife) and a sane personality (cracking turkey jokes with his daugthers).
- rdtsc 10y ago
  > Seems like Obama was put on a spot more than other presidents. Another element there is the benchmark against which he set himself up for -- Hope and Change. I remember having a lot of hope and now after 8 years, it feels kid of "meh". There were some good things, but also a lot of blunders. I guess I shouldn't expect much from that political office. Not sure about Trump. Having lived in the Rust Belt I can see how people there understand and follow him. And I heard he just withdrew from TPP, not bad so far.
benihana 10y ago
This is a man who authorized the murder of Yemeni civilians with drones, whose DOJ went after journalists who spoke out against him, whose DOJ went after conservative-leaning people via the IRS, whose DOJ sold weapons to Mexico that were involved in murder of Americans, whose state department stored emails on an insecure server that ended up being hacked, and who flip-flopped on marriage equality until it was politically expedient to support it. This isn't really all that new for a politician. I don't hate him any more than I hate any other asshole who becomes president. What I hate about Obama is the useful idiots who give him a pass on all this and say things like he is a great man with integrity. He's not. He's a politician who knows how to use his celebrity to influence people, probably the best president to do that since FDR. So while it's extremely difficult to know that you can not, and will not agree with me, I think I'll be able to deal with it. https://www.democracynow.org/2016/10/11/obama_is_killing_yemen_a_yemeni https://www.democracynow.org/2016/10/11/obama_is_killing_yem... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRS_targeting_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRS_targeting_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Department_of_Justice_investigations_of_reporters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Department_of_Justice_inv... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal
Inconel 10y ago
I agree that many people, particularly on the right, hold Obama to an unrealistic standard while willingly overlooking much more serious flaws among candidates they support. However, I'm not sure I agree that you can't attack the man, can you really separate the policy from the man at this level? I for one find nothing offensive about attacking his integrity due to his massive expansion of state surveillance. To me that seems like a case of poor policy and poor integrity. On a personal level, I find him much more genuine and likable than Trump, I'm sure Obama would be great to grab a beer or coffee with. On the other hand, I much rather the President be terrible to grab coffee with but in return not think it acceptable to order drone strikes on American citizens.
jusq2 10y ago
The guy was unqualified for the job. Just think about what it takes to be sitting on top of the massive hierarchy that is the govt. If there is an issue X you need to know who to talk to, who to trust, who has power and influence to make things happen, what you can offer them in return etc etc. How the fuck was Obama ever qualified to know all that? So if you have an issue with Education or Pakistan or Wall Street lots of delegation happens to random people who have their own agendas. So what happened in his first couple years, was he was just used by much more savvy operators. And once he realized it, he spent the remaining years trusting no one. You can't take someone with a few years of real world experience put them in charge of a massive org and expect them to know what they are doing. But unfortunately as Daniel Kahnemen says there is huge demand for overconfidence. So we end up with leaders like Obama and Trump.
- jakeogh 10y ago
  He was definitely in over his head. The constant vacations and 333 golf outings are telling imho. Major props to him for keeping us out of a large scale war though. "someone with a few years of real world experience put them in charge of a massive org" is objectively not Trump. However you want to cut it, he has an adult life of real-world experience doing exactly that.
  - jusq2 10y ago
    True about Trump having the experience with a large org and what it takes to run it, but its going to take him a while to learn the DC org chart being an outsider and thats going to be his biggest weakness in getting anything done. EDIT: to be clear I don't think Trump is qualified
  - hirsin 10y ago
    I wish the vacations bit would die a quick death. He was present more often than Bush. I haven't seen much that says he was in over his head, would appreciate some accounts of that. I'd also argue the connection between running a large org and being skilled in any specific area - you don't expect Satya to understand the specifics on how the azure VM is set up, that's why you have a VP.

by vinhboy 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

agumonkey 10y ago

Seems like Obama was put on a spot more than other presidents. He could say the right things, act the right way[1]; yet if at any point something negative came (drones, nsa) he would be bashed generously. People expect A+ from him and scream at an A-. The sad part is that Trump is said to have been elected because he was felt like a true person; I understand their sentiment, his mouth seems unfiltered, so he's a true nasty person but people still prefer that to someone that looks like 90% good samaritan. [1] you can find lots of videos where he would adress antagonistic crowds peacefully and wisely. Lots of times where he showed caring (his behavior toward his wife) and a sane personality (cracking turkey jokes with his daugthers).

rdtsc 10y ago
> Seems like Obama was put on a spot more than other presidents. Another element there is the benchmark against which he set himself up for -- Hope and Change. I remember having a lot of hope and now after 8 years, it feels kid of "meh". There were some good things, but also a lot of blunders. I guess I shouldn't expect much from that political office. Not sure about Trump. Having lived in the Rust Belt I can see how people there understand and follow him. And I heard he just withdrew from TPP, not bad so far.

benihana 10y ago

This is a man who authorized the murder of Yemeni civilians with drones, whose DOJ went after journalists who spoke out against him, whose DOJ went after conservative-leaning people via the IRS, whose DOJ sold weapons to Mexico that were involved in murder of Americans, whose state department stored emails on an insecure server that ended up being hacked, and who flip-flopped on marriage equality until it was politically expedient to support it. This isn't really all that new for a politician. I don't hate him any more than I hate any other asshole who becomes president. What I hate about Obama is the useful idiots who give him a pass on all this and say things like he is a great man with integrity. He's not. He's a politician who knows how to use his celebrity to influence people, probably the best president to do that since FDR. So while it's extremely difficult to know that you can not, and will not agree with me, I think I'll be able to deal with it. https://www.democracynow.org/2016/10/11/obama_is_killing_yemen_a_yemeni https://www.democracynow.org/2016/10/11/obama_is_killing_yem... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRS_targeting_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRS_targeting_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Department_of_Justice_investigations_of_reporters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Department_of_Justice_inv... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

Inconel 10y ago

I agree that many people, particularly on the right, hold Obama to an unrealistic standard while willingly overlooking much more serious flaws among candidates they support. However, I'm not sure I agree that you can't attack the man, can you really separate the policy from the man at this level? I for one find nothing offensive about attacking his integrity due to his massive expansion of state surveillance. To me that seems like a case of poor policy and poor integrity. On a personal level, I find him much more genuine and likable than Trump, I'm sure Obama would be great to grab a beer or coffee with. On the other hand, I much rather the President be terrible to grab coffee with but in return not think it acceptable to order drone strikes on American citizens.

jusq2 10y ago

The guy was unqualified for the job. Just think about what it takes to be sitting on top of the massive hierarchy that is the govt. If there is an issue X you need to know who to talk to, who to trust, who has power and influence to make things happen, what you can offer them in return etc etc. How the fuck was Obama ever qualified to know all that? So if you have an issue with Education or Pakistan or Wall Street lots of delegation happens to random people who have their own agendas. So what happened in his first couple years, was he was just used by much more savvy operators. And once he realized it, he spent the remaining years trusting no one. You can't take someone with a few years of real world experience put them in charge of a massive org and expect them to know what they are doing. But unfortunately as Daniel Kahnemen says there is huge demand for overconfidence. So we end up with leaders like Obama and Trump.

jakeogh 10y ago
He was definitely in over his head. The constant vacations and 333 golf outings are telling imho. Major props to him for keeping us out of a large scale war though. "someone with a few years of real world experience put them in charge of a massive org" is objectively not Trump. However you want to cut it, he has an adult life of real-world experience doing exactly that.
- jusq2 10y ago
  True about Trump having the experience with a large org and what it takes to run it, but its going to take him a while to learn the DC org chart being an outsider and thats going to be his biggest weakness in getting anything done. EDIT: to be clear I don't think Trump is qualified
- hirsin 10y ago
  I wish the vacations bit would die a quick death. He was present more often than Bush. I haven't seen much that says he was in over his head, would appreciate some accounts of that. I'd also argue the connection between running a large org and being skilled in any specific area - you don't expect Satya to understand the specifics on how the azure VM is set up, that's why you have a VP.