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If I had basic income, I would go back to study, get a PhD in Computer Science Majoring in AI/Machine learning and then I would try to do something meaningful w

If I had basic income, I would go back to study, get a PhD in Computer Science Majoring in AI/Machine learning and then I would try to do something meaningful with it. I am tired of doing pseudo-intellectual software 'engineering' tasks - I would like to use my intellect to tackle difficult problems instead of trivial problems like building UI components and managing databases. Unfortunately, I can't afford to go to back to uni right now. I think that there are a lot of people in my position who are desperate for basic income. From a societal point of view, innovation would move quicker if people had more time to invest in themselves. Unfortunately for me, right now, I just have two options if I want to buy myself some time to study: - Hope that one of the startups I work/worked for gets a big exit and that I can cash in and fund my studies. - Wait for retirement age before going back to uni (and hope that my brain still works OK at that age).

wolfgke 10y ago
The fact that someone is paying you to do these jobs shows that the things you do do have a lot value to someone (your boss, the company's customers etc.). So your existing job is far from being meaningless. Instead of crying for a UBI you should better cry for people not to buy software that does "trivial stuff". If people were willing to spend a lot of money on software that does highly not-trivial stuff, there probably were a large demand for people that are able and willing to work on such things. Markets are a democracy - everybody votes with his wallet.
- jondubois 10y ago
  If me and my colleagues were better educated and less stressed on average, we would introduce fewer bugs into the system and we would waste less time debugging issues that should never have existed in the first place. I guess I believe that education has a really good ROI.
  - wolfgke 10y ago
    > I guess I believe that education has a really good ROI. Did you do a back of the napkin estimate for this? You also have to include the tuition fees and the opportunity cost of (probably) not working while you study on the debit side (thus no, i.e. lost, income). On the credit side the increased productivity/better job etc. Have you computed how many years it will take to reduce the computed debt (including opportunity cost)? I have not computed it, but I'd assume that it would take a hellish lot of time to even break even.
- alexqgb 10y ago
  No, this is not what you "should better" do, largely because your approach is so demonstrably inefficient when applied to multiple problems. After all, what you propose is a a particular solution to a particular problem. UBI is a general solution to a vast number of particular problem. For reasons of efficacy alone, UBI > your idea. QED
- inimino 10y ago
  This is a homo economicus fantasy. It is entirely possible for the employee to see how irrational, socially useless, or a net negative their job is, while not in a position to change it.
- 16bytes 10y ago
  I think the argument for UBI would say that OP is better served not working in that position, because it's not what he wants to do. The employer, would then hire somebody else who actually wanted to do that work (I actually don't mind designing UI sometimes). Or failing that, would have to raise compensation until they got somebody who agreed to do the work. It seems that under the UBI system, the labor pool is more efficient. By taking away the basic requirement of needing to work, you introduce a more fair supply-and-demand free-market labor force. Currently this is tipped far in the favor of employers because employees' livelihood is at stake, and this asymmetric power dynamic suppresses wages.
prostoalex 10y ago
How many people in your position would make a similar decision? Do you expect the tuition rates and housing rents in the college town of your choice to go up or down? What happens once the education system and landlors absorb and accommodate the influx of revenue?
- jimnotgym 10y ago
  Or maybe more people would leave their jobs and go to teach? Maybe the local community college would have higher qualified ex industry teachers and it would spread the students around other towns?
  - wolfgke 10y ago
    If there is a larger supply of well-qualified people who want to teach, the wages for teaching will go further down (supply and demand). I have a little doubt that this is an intended consequence.
  - prostoalex 10y ago
    That very well may happen, and many retirees on Social Security do return to teaching, many consider it a way to "give back". Considering the Social Security program has been around since 1935, it's probably safe to say that existence of such people for 80+ years did not lead to a decline in college costs.
    - wolfgke 10y ago
      > many retirees on Social Security do return to teaching, many consider it a way to "give back". Just my five cents: If they recorded their lectures and put them on YouTube (or a similar site) much more people could profit from their teaching - thus they would give back to many more people.
vernon99 10y ago
+1 to wolfgke. With BI costs for such mundane work would increase as less people would be inclined to do it. As a result more of such work still remaining in the states would move overseas to the countries with no basic income. That leads to a whole bunch of negative consequences.
eli_gottlieb 10y ago
I would say similar, which is why at one point I actually sent in PhD applications. PhDs in computer science usually come with a stipend and a tuition exemption. Why do you need to wait until retirement?
throwaway729 10y ago
PhD programs typically pay 20-30k a year, and you can get close to doubling that by taking summer internships. That's at or above a lot of basic income proposals, especially because many top CS universities are located in places with very low CoL. So if it's just lack of basic income that's preventing you from going for a CS PhD, you should apply for programs next year (unfortunately you just missed the typical application deadlines...)
shortstuffsushi 10y ago
So, I have a couple of questions here -- one for UBI and one for you. 1. You're hoping for UBI so that you can quit the work force and get a PhD, so you're going to (at least temporarily) cease to input money into the system, and start to take money from the system. That seems like effectively twice the cost. Where does that money come from, if you and other people have that same idea? This is the part of UBI I'm struggling to comprehend. There's the idea that you will come out of school "more valuable," but that's speculative vs your current position which is actively adding value (albeit less than what you feel you're worth). 2. Why do you need UBI in order to do this? Are you making no money beyond the absolute minimum you need to live with your current job? Couldn't you potentially save some away and then do the "nights and weekends" sort of school that some people do? To your very last point, you mention having to hope for one of your startups goes big, but could you take a more "steady" / traditional job and make a decent amount of money that way? Unpopular opinion: this strikes me as exactly a case against UBI. You're taking an active, and perhaps more importantly, tax-contributing member of society, and incentivizing them to stop being one. "Innovation would move quicker" is a great idea, but I don't think it's all that much of a guarantee. It seems likely to me that it would continue near the same pace. But, that's also just speculation / without citation.
mhb 10y ago
The UBI the article suggests is $12K per year. Do you think that would be sufficient to pursue your alternative? Couldn't you save up the equivalent amount and do that on your own?
monksy 10y ago
Due to a Basic Income you're already admiting that you would want to drop out of the higher income bracket, and fall to where the BI it would benefit you more. A few things about that: 1. You never said anything about BI handling out of work situations. ---- I think what would incentivize you to accomplish this would be: 1. Setup financial goals that would support you during this time. (Think FIRE) To me it sounds like your finances aren't in order to do this. 2. Step away from that over-ambitious goal of PhD. Go for a masters. It's only 2 years. PhDs aren't as great as the school sells them. (They're in the market to convince you to do that) 3. Try to elevate yourself by practicing for grad school by doing online classes in the evening.

wolfgke 10y ago

The fact that someone is paying you to do these jobs shows that the things you do do have a lot value to someone (your boss, the company's customers etc.). So your existing job is far from being meaningless. Instead of crying for a UBI you should better cry for people not to buy software that does "trivial stuff". If people were willing to spend a lot of money on software that does highly not-trivial stuff, there probably were a large demand for people that are able and willing to work on such things. Markets are a democracy - everybody votes with his wallet.

jondubois 10y ago
If me and my colleagues were better educated and less stressed on average, we would introduce fewer bugs into the system and we would waste less time debugging issues that should never have existed in the first place. I guess I believe that education has a really good ROI.
- wolfgke 10y ago
  > I guess I believe that education has a really good ROI. Did you do a back of the napkin estimate for this? You also have to include the tuition fees and the opportunity cost of (probably) not working while you study on the debit side (thus no, i.e. lost, income). On the credit side the increased productivity/better job etc. Have you computed how many years it will take to reduce the computed debt (including opportunity cost)? I have not computed it, but I'd assume that it would take a hellish lot of time to even break even.
alexqgb 10y ago
No, this is not what you "should better" do, largely because your approach is so demonstrably inefficient when applied to multiple problems. After all, what you propose is a a particular solution to a particular problem. UBI is a general solution to a vast number of particular problem. For reasons of efficacy alone, UBI > your idea. QED
inimino 10y ago
This is a homo economicus fantasy. It is entirely possible for the employee to see how irrational, socially useless, or a net negative their job is, while not in a position to change it.
16bytes 10y ago
I think the argument for UBI would say that OP is better served not working in that position, because it's not what he wants to do. The employer, would then hire somebody else who actually wanted to do that work (I actually don't mind designing UI sometimes). Or failing that, would have to raise compensation until they got somebody who agreed to do the work. It seems that under the UBI system, the labor pool is more efficient. By taking away the basic requirement of needing to work, you introduce a more fair supply-and-demand free-market labor force. Currently this is tipped far in the favor of employers because employees' livelihood is at stake, and this asymmetric power dynamic suppresses wages.

prostoalex 10y ago

How many people in your position would make a similar decision? Do you expect the tuition rates and housing rents in the college town of your choice to go up or down? What happens once the education system and landlors absorb and accommodate the influx of revenue?

jimnotgym 10y ago
Or maybe more people would leave their jobs and go to teach? Maybe the local community college would have higher qualified ex industry teachers and it would spread the students around other towns?
- wolfgke 10y ago
  If there is a larger supply of well-qualified people who want to teach, the wages for teaching will go further down (supply and demand). I have a little doubt that this is an intended consequence.
- prostoalex 10y ago
  That very well may happen, and many retirees on Social Security do return to teaching, many consider it a way to "give back". Considering the Social Security program has been around since 1935, it's probably safe to say that existence of such people for 80+ years did not lead to a decline in college costs.
  - wolfgke 10y ago
    > many retirees on Social Security do return to teaching, many consider it a way to "give back". Just my five cents: If they recorded their lectures and put them on YouTube (or a similar site) much more people could profit from their teaching - thus they would give back to many more people.

vernon99 10y ago

+1 to wolfgke. With BI costs for such mundane work would increase as less people would be inclined to do it. As a result more of such work still remaining in the states would move overseas to the countries with no basic income. That leads to a whole bunch of negative consequences.

eli_gottlieb 10y ago

I would say similar, which is why at one point I actually sent in PhD applications. PhDs in computer science usually come with a stipend and a tuition exemption. Why do you need to wait until retirement?

throwaway729 10y ago

PhD programs typically pay 20-30k a year, and you can get close to doubling that by taking summer internships. That's at or above a lot of basic income proposals, especially because many top CS universities are located in places with very low CoL. So if it's just lack of basic income that's preventing you from going for a CS PhD, you should apply for programs next year (unfortunately you just missed the typical application deadlines...)

shortstuffsushi 10y ago

So, I have a couple of questions here -- one for UBI and one for you. 1. You're hoping for UBI so that you can quit the work force and get a PhD, so you're going to (at least temporarily) cease to input money into the system, and start to take money from the system. That seems like effectively twice the cost. Where does that money come from, if you and other people have that same idea? This is the part of UBI I'm struggling to comprehend. There's the idea that you will come out of school "more valuable," but that's speculative vs your current position which is actively adding value (albeit less than what you feel you're worth). 2. Why do you need UBI in order to do this? Are you making no money beyond the absolute minimum you need to live with your current job? Couldn't you potentially save some away and then do the "nights and weekends" sort of school that some people do? To your very last point, you mention having to hope for one of your startups goes big, but could you take a more "steady" / traditional job and make a decent amount of money that way? Unpopular opinion: this strikes me as exactly a case against UBI. You're taking an active, and perhaps more importantly, tax-contributing member of society, and incentivizing them to stop being one. "Innovation would move quicker" is a great idea, but I don't think it's all that much of a guarantee. It seems likely to me that it would continue near the same pace. But, that's also just speculation / without citation.

mhb 10y ago

The UBI the article suggests is $12K per year. Do you think that would be sufficient to pursue your alternative? Couldn't you save up the equivalent amount and do that on your own?

monksy 10y ago

Due to a Basic Income you're already admiting that you would want to drop out of the higher income bracket, and fall to where the BI it would benefit you more. A few things about that: 1. You never said anything about BI handling out of work situations. ---- I think what would incentivize you to accomplish this would be: 1. Setup financial goals that would support you during this time. (Think FIRE) To me it sounds like your finances aren't in order to do this. 2. Step away from that over-ambitious goal of PhD. Go for a masters. It's only 2 years. PhDs aren't as great as the school sells them. (They're in the market to convince you to do that) 3. Try to elevate yourself by practicing for grad school by doing online classes in the evening.