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You can ALWAYS switch careers and learn new skills. If your factory closed down you could pick up a different trade that is available in your area if you're wil

You can ALWAYS switch careers and learn new skills. If your factory closed down you could pick up a different trade that is available in your area if you're willing to start all over. You can move to a whole new area and do the same. The question is about whether or not someone has the intestinal fortitude to make it happen and see it through. Unlike tech where a complete career change could happen in a short time, not necessarily degrade your pay too badly, and not necessarily require relocation- this could easily be just too overwhelming for people, especially with families. The key is, there is nothing preventing an able minded individual from finding a means to support themselves if they're willing to go through lean times to see it through.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
icebraining 10y ago
No, the point is that if you let things degrade to the point where many individuals can only choose between either going through lean times and uprooting their lives or supporting a ban on renewables, it's not surprising that you'll be breathing coal fumes for a while longer.
manicdee 10y ago
How do you retrain when you have no money? "Willing to go through lean times" is easy for a six-figure-salary with five-figure savings to say.
- manyxcxi 10y ago
  I watched my mom take night classes and work a day job while raising three kids (with my dad) under 6. We literally packed up and moved back to the US (we're all citizens) because where we lived was bombed by US forces. We came back to the states with 3 kids, no jobs, and a lot of what we had was actually blown up. Don't tell me you can't retrain. It's a matter of deciding to do it and figuring out a way to make it work. It's not EASY, you don't want to do it if you don't have to. There's simply nothing keeping you from doing it other than the fear and anguish associated with upheaving your life.
  - rosser 10y ago
    I seriously commend your mother for that. But just because she could do it doesn't mean everyone else can, or is in a position to do it. You're judging the entire rest of the world on the basis of your N=1 life story. I'm sorry to tell you, dude, but not everyone is as awesome as your mom, and to dismiss anyone who isn't out of hand as being too lazy, or too afraid, or too unwilling is exactly the kind of myopia I'm talking about.
    - ivan_gammel 10y ago
      Coal miners have to change their way of life just as it happens everywhere else. If someone is not in position to alter his career, it does not mean others have to protect his obsolete and dangerous job with significant negative impact on environment. All these "myopia" talks about poor people who have families are just myopic regarding possible government policy options: there do exist approaches that can satisfy both conservatives and progressives. You have a lot of people with experience and strong motivation to work: give them money to spend 1 year of their lives to learn something else, help to relocate and provide some guidance on the job market and you'll return twice the money in future tax returns.
    - manyxcxi 10y ago
      I'm not saying everyone who doesn't or thinks they can't are less than. I'm saying that short of some type of debilitation (physical or mental), there's actually nothing that is actually keeping someone from switching paths other than that person. You can go from coal miner to welder. You can go from construction worker to truck driver. You can go from factory worker to working for the city/county/state maintenance teams. All of these will require you to seek out the opportunity, probably pick up some different skills along the way, deal with some BS trying to get a foot in the door, and likely a length of time where you've got to do something else to keep the lights on. Back to my n=1 anecdotes, I worked more than full time at a local dairy farm and as a motorcycle tech to pay for university. My degree was in Computer Engineering, seemingly completely unrelated. I worked my ass off and admitted when I didn't know how to do something and sought help from those around me, but I also just tried. I just kept trying, that was it. I had the luxury of not having to keep anyone but myself fed and the stamina that being 18 gives you. But all I did was drive to the farm down the road and ask if they needed help. Then I popped in to the motorcycle shop when I saw a help wanted sign. My entire point is that people can try to change their path. They may not succeed, and it will very likely be incredibly hard and stressful- there will be obstacles and set backs, but you don't have to be special or smart or anything other than someone who's willing to try. To suggest that the vast majority of people can't do this is condescending and belittling to all of them. I would agree that a lot won't even try, probably too afraid- which is totally different than being lazy or dumb. I would also posit that a number would come up 'short' in that they don't really get ahead of where they were, but maybe they're into a new area of work that will be more stable or safe. Then there's a lucky few who make it through the shitshow stronger, better off financially/socially, and with the self assurance that through their honest effort, all things are possible- if not always probable.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

icebraining 10y ago

No, the point is that if you let things degrade to the point where many individuals can only choose between either going through lean times and uprooting their lives or supporting a ban on renewables, it's not surprising that you'll be breathing coal fumes for a while longer.

manicdee 10y ago

How do you retrain when you have no money? "Willing to go through lean times" is easy for a six-figure-salary with five-figure savings to say.

manyxcxi 10y ago
I watched my mom take night classes and work a day job while raising three kids (with my dad) under 6. We literally packed up and moved back to the US (we're all citizens) because where we lived was bombed by US forces. We came back to the states with 3 kids, no jobs, and a lot of what we had was actually blown up. Don't tell me you can't retrain. It's a matter of deciding to do it and figuring out a way to make it work. It's not EASY, you don't want to do it if you don't have to. There's simply nothing keeping you from doing it other than the fear and anguish associated with upheaving your life.
- rosser 10y ago
  I seriously commend your mother for that. But just because she could do it doesn't mean everyone else can, or is in a position to do it. You're judging the entire rest of the world on the basis of your N=1 life story. I'm sorry to tell you, dude, but not everyone is as awesome as your mom, and to dismiss anyone who isn't out of hand as being too lazy, or too afraid, or too unwilling is exactly the kind of myopia I'm talking about.
  - ivan_gammel 10y ago
    Coal miners have to change their way of life just as it happens everywhere else. If someone is not in position to alter his career, it does not mean others have to protect his obsolete and dangerous job with significant negative impact on environment. All these "myopia" talks about poor people who have families are just myopic regarding possible government policy options: there do exist approaches that can satisfy both conservatives and progressives. You have a lot of people with experience and strong motivation to work: give them money to spend 1 year of their lives to learn something else, help to relocate and provide some guidance on the job market and you'll return twice the money in future tax returns.
  - manyxcxi 10y ago
    I'm not saying everyone who doesn't or thinks they can't are less than. I'm saying that short of some type of debilitation (physical or mental), there's actually nothing that is actually keeping someone from switching paths other than that person. You can go from coal miner to welder. You can go from construction worker to truck driver. You can go from factory worker to working for the city/county/state maintenance teams. All of these will require you to seek out the opportunity, probably pick up some different skills along the way, deal with some BS trying to get a foot in the door, and likely a length of time where you've got to do something else to keep the lights on. Back to my n=1 anecdotes, I worked more than full time at a local dairy farm and as a motorcycle tech to pay for university. My degree was in Computer Engineering, seemingly completely unrelated. I worked my ass off and admitted when I didn't know how to do something and sought help from those around me, but I also just tried. I just kept trying, that was it. I had the luxury of not having to keep anyone but myself fed and the stamina that being 18 gives you. But all I did was drive to the farm down the road and ask if they needed help. Then I popped in to the motorcycle shop when I saw a help wanted sign. My entire point is that people can try to change their path. They may not succeed, and it will very likely be incredibly hard and stressful- there will be obstacles and set backs, but you don't have to be special or smart or anything other than someone who's willing to try. To suggest that the vast majority of people can't do this is condescending and belittling to all of them. I would agree that a lot won't even try, probably too afraid- which is totally different than being lazy or dumb. I would also posit that a number would come up 'short' in that they don't really get ahead of where they were, but maybe they're into a new area of work that will be more stable or safe. Then there's a lucky few who make it through the shitshow stronger, better off financially/socially, and with the self assurance that through their honest effort, all things are possible- if not always probable.