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I've heard convincing arguments[1] from economists that we should convert our existing "safety net" and "welfare" programs to simple UBI (aka BIG). The argumen

I've heard convincing arguments[1] from economists that we should convert our existing "safety net" and "welfare" programs to simple UBI (aka BIG). The argument tends to circle around the fact that the existing programs dis-incentivize getting off disability or Section 8 because the recipient is penalized in a step-function way (as soon as they get a job, they may become ineligible or could be charged with a crime). A well crafted UBI such that it's an income tax rebate (not to be confused with tax credits or tax deductions) to replace the many smaller safety-net / welfare programs eliminates the disincentive for people to get off these specialized programs that already exists. While I don't think Americans are well informed enough to make a rational decision (and will likely be swayed by emotion), I think there are reasonable arguments for UBI / BIG. [1] http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2017/01/munger_on_the_b.html http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2017/01/munger_on_the_b....

kazagistar 10y ago
I worry that you just made it even more politically untenable. "You are taking away my retirement I earned and giving it to everyone?" "Don't touch my medicaid!" "They are trying to kill the soup kitchens; look at these children we feed." Or whatever. There is such aggressive fighting for scraps that no one wants to make a big-picture shift that might have unknown societal repercussions.
- n_ 10y ago
  This. This is the biggest challenge to UBI becoming a serious mainstream topic in the United States IMHO. It takes me hours of conversation explaining UBI to any of my southern/conservative family members to get to a point where they at least acknowledge that it isn't just a fancy word for socialism... and even then they still don't like it. Granted, I'm their left coast liberal silicon valley nephew so they aren't really interested in anything I have to say anyway.. but maybe thats the point. To a lot of Americans it just sounds like free liberal hand outs, no matter how much data/math/science/economics go into it. Hopefully smarter people than I can figure out how to message UBI to that part of America.
krrrh 10y ago
I haven't listened to this episode yet, but it's worth noting that Milton Friedman was advocating for this very position in the 1960s. Here's the relevant clip from Free to Choose: https://youtu.be/82SG_EpCsVs?t=1524 https://youtu.be/82SG_EpCsVs?t=1524 And a 1968 clip from an interview with William Buckley Jr.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtpgkX588nM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtpgkX588nM

kazagistar 10y ago

I worry that you just made it even more politically untenable. "You are taking away my retirement I earned and giving it to everyone?" "Don't touch my medicaid!" "They are trying to kill the soup kitchens; look at these children we feed." Or whatever. There is such aggressive fighting for scraps that no one wants to make a big-picture shift that might have unknown societal repercussions.

n_ 10y ago
This. This is the biggest challenge to UBI becoming a serious mainstream topic in the United States IMHO. It takes me hours of conversation explaining UBI to any of my southern/conservative family members to get to a point where they at least acknowledge that it isn't just a fancy word for socialism... and even then they still don't like it. Granted, I'm their left coast liberal silicon valley nephew so they aren't really interested in anything I have to say anyway.. but maybe thats the point. To a lot of Americans it just sounds like free liberal hand outs, no matter how much data/math/science/economics go into it. Hopefully smarter people than I can figure out how to message UBI to that part of America.

krrrh 10y ago

I haven't listened to this episode yet, but it's worth noting that Milton Friedman was advocating for this very position in the 1960s. Here's the relevant clip from Free to Choose: https://youtu.be/82SG_EpCsVs?t=1524 https://youtu.be/82SG_EpCsVs?t=1524 And a 1968 clip from an interview with William Buckley Jr.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtpgkX588nM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtpgkX588nM