5 ms·

> Free/libre OSS won the battle for the server, lost the battle for the desktop I don't think it lost the battle on desktop - if you don't rely on platform(or

by idobai 10y ago

> Free/libre OSS won the battle for the server, lost the battle for the desktop I don't think it lost the battle on desktop - if you don't rely on platform(or interest)-specific software like the adobe/microsoft suites and some 3A games then you'll be more than fine on the linux desktop.

tornadoboy55 10y ago
Shame that the battle for the desktop is actually (mostly) being fought on the laptop - and Linux sucks there. The default settings are usually extremely poor for powersaving. Why doesn't powertop+TLP get installed, configured and activated by default when Ubuntu/Fedora detects its installed on a laptop? Also, sleeping still isn't reliable (if I close my Macbook with some work on I can be damn sure it'll be exactly as I left it when I open it. With Linux, its still not 100% reliable). Wifi still also isn't nearly as reliable (packet loss, connection drops etc.) as either Windows or macOS.
- idobai 10y ago
  I use linux on laptop and I don't have problems(especially with xubuntu). I just install the base, run additional drivers, install the wifi/gpu drivers and done. It was always like this on my previous laptops and on others' laptops I've installed it. Power saving on windows is an illusion, I don't remember getting more things done with the same laptop. Maybe it's the case if you use Unity/KDE/Gnome3 and similar heavy stuff... If you want to spare more energy then use integrated graphics and amd|nvidia only if you want to play. Bumblebee can also help. Using XFCE, Firefox, playing videos with vlc(not with web players!), installing a blocking extension for your browser, avoiding electron/jvm/mono-based apps(ironic, I'm a Scala developer) can also reduce energy consumption. I use neovim for coding and it's a huge boost for me. Suspending was always realiable on ubuntu for me. But with arch or arch-based distros it's a ~70% possibility for failure(according to my experience). On the other, hand putting windows to sleep is a serious hazard, it's not just hurts performance but it makes the os and its apps unstable(I use win7 at work). I've heard that there are people with wifi problems but connection drops and packet losses are issues which are better to be reported. There is askubuntu.com, you can get help pretty fast by searching or asking.
- eikenberry 10y ago
  The fact that TLP exists is a great step. It wasn't that long ago that I had a dozen different custom hacks in place to get better power usage while on battery, now TLP does all of them and more.
  - tornadoboy55 10y ago
    Still kind of disheartening that I get 10-14h battery life on my 13" 2015 Retina under macOS, but it drops to 4-5h on untweaked Ubuntu. I can push that to about 7-8h with the help of Powertop and TLP. That's still a vast, vast chasm to overcome for Linux. Yes, I know Macbooks do non-standard things with Wi-Fi and Thunderbolt controllers (special ACPI sleep modes etc.), that isn't a bad thing, Linux should attempt those as well. To end on a positive note: I do agree TLP (and other powersaving tools) are good progress.
no_wizard 10y ago
I take slight issue with this. It's not you personally, but I see this a lot in tech, in particular from the FOSS crowd 'Well, if you don't need x or y, then its fine!' FOSS will always be second tier for most people until the plethora of software available is at some relative parity, similar to that of macOS at least. (I'm talking strict availability). The fact that there isn't more cohesive efforts to have big software vendors port their software to FOSS systems I feel like is part of the problem. I personally feel the FOSS community doesn't have good evangelism to actual software developers that develop non-idealistic software. Adobe is a good example of this. So is Microsoft. So is Autodesk (With some exceptions, granted, but I think those come from the need to run in parallel processing environments that Linux supports quite well, and Maya). Heck, so is Wunderlist. Or 2do. 1password. They don't make native apps or even some semblance of apps for any FOSS platform, and I see no attempts to evangelize coming out of FOSS communities to get these places on their side. I'm sure there are exceptions I'm missing or perhaps some of these examples listed have progressed but my point still stands. FOSS is great for users, and has really evangelized well to a certain subset of users in particular (mostly the tech literate enthusiasts and developer crowd, myself included). I however, will never accept this is a good answer. We should be demanding better evangelism to get big name products on the platforms. I do the best I can myself in this regard, but I feel that the entire idea that we should be more inclusive of these vendors/companies/developers is scoffed at in the FOSS/OSS communities and I do not inherently understand why. Yes, they create code that isn't meeting the guidelines of FOSS/OSS, but if you don't create the best toolsets independent of them or have some semblance of balance, then the platform will stagnant at x number of users. I think idealism colors perspectives but reality is much more grey than either side is willing to cede, perhaps.
- idobai 10y ago
  Alternatively, if you don't need: privacy, a fast OS with a diverse set of desktops for power users, comfortable development environment with power tools, security, open standards, sane package management(don't even mention Program Files and Control Panel...) and a helpful and progressive community then you'll be fine with windows. Yeah, you can run adobe and ms software natively, instead of using wine or crossover. Seriously, you either avoid the ms bloat or find alternatives(ez). The FOSS community needs an industry but doesn't need the industrial abuse. By default, NOBODY should depend on a company or a "network" of companies and their software. That's the sin of public education - selling the youth to companies. It's now like in Pascal Lainé's book - "L'Irrévolution(1971)" where the youth after finishing the school goes to the town's factory. There is no choice - you've been sold.
posterboy 10y ago
that's the point though, DRM-protection is largely incompatible with oss (it seems, but maybe not inherently so).

by idobai 10y ago

tornadoboy55 10y ago

Shame that the battle for the desktop is actually (mostly) being fought on the laptop - and Linux sucks there. The default settings are usually extremely poor for powersaving. Why doesn't powertop+TLP get installed, configured and activated by default when Ubuntu/Fedora detects its installed on a laptop? Also, sleeping still isn't reliable (if I close my Macbook with some work on I can be damn sure it'll be exactly as I left it when I open it. With Linux, its still not 100% reliable). Wifi still also isn't nearly as reliable (packet loss, connection drops etc.) as either Windows or macOS.

idobai 10y ago
I use linux on laptop and I don't have problems(especially with xubuntu). I just install the base, run additional drivers, install the wifi/gpu drivers and done. It was always like this on my previous laptops and on others' laptops I've installed it. Power saving on windows is an illusion, I don't remember getting more things done with the same laptop. Maybe it's the case if you use Unity/KDE/Gnome3 and similar heavy stuff... If you want to spare more energy then use integrated graphics and amd|nvidia only if you want to play. Bumblebee can also help. Using XFCE, Firefox, playing videos with vlc(not with web players!), installing a blocking extension for your browser, avoiding electron/jvm/mono-based apps(ironic, I'm a Scala developer) can also reduce energy consumption. I use neovim for coding and it's a huge boost for me. Suspending was always realiable on ubuntu for me. But with arch or arch-based distros it's a ~70% possibility for failure(according to my experience). On the other, hand putting windows to sleep is a serious hazard, it's not just hurts performance but it makes the os and its apps unstable(I use win7 at work). I've heard that there are people with wifi problems but connection drops and packet losses are issues which are better to be reported. There is askubuntu.com, you can get help pretty fast by searching or asking.
eikenberry 10y ago
The fact that TLP exists is a great step. It wasn't that long ago that I had a dozen different custom hacks in place to get better power usage while on battery, now TLP does all of them and more.
- tornadoboy55 10y ago
  Still kind of disheartening that I get 10-14h battery life on my 13" 2015 Retina under macOS, but it drops to 4-5h on untweaked Ubuntu. I can push that to about 7-8h with the help of Powertop and TLP. That's still a vast, vast chasm to overcome for Linux. Yes, I know Macbooks do non-standard things with Wi-Fi and Thunderbolt controllers (special ACPI sleep modes etc.), that isn't a bad thing, Linux should attempt those as well. To end on a positive note: I do agree TLP (and other powersaving tools) are good progress.

no_wizard 10y ago

I take slight issue with this. It's not you personally, but I see this a lot in tech, in particular from the FOSS crowd 'Well, if you don't need x or y, then its fine!' FOSS will always be second tier for most people until the plethora of software available is at some relative parity, similar to that of macOS at least. (I'm talking strict availability). The fact that there isn't more cohesive efforts to have big software vendors port their software to FOSS systems I feel like is part of the problem. I personally feel the FOSS community doesn't have good evangelism to actual software developers that develop non-idealistic software. Adobe is a good example of this. So is Microsoft. So is Autodesk (With some exceptions, granted, but I think those come from the need to run in parallel processing environments that Linux supports quite well, and Maya). Heck, so is Wunderlist. Or 2do. 1password. They don't make native apps or even some semblance of apps for any FOSS platform, and I see no attempts to evangelize coming out of FOSS communities to get these places on their side. I'm sure there are exceptions I'm missing or perhaps some of these examples listed have progressed but my point still stands. FOSS is great for users, and has really evangelized well to a certain subset of users in particular (mostly the tech literate enthusiasts and developer crowd, myself included). I however, will never accept this is a good answer. We should be demanding better evangelism to get big name products on the platforms. I do the best I can myself in this regard, but I feel that the entire idea that we should be more inclusive of these vendors/companies/developers is scoffed at in the FOSS/OSS communities and I do not inherently understand why. Yes, they create code that isn't meeting the guidelines of FOSS/OSS, but if you don't create the best toolsets independent of them or have some semblance of balance, then the platform will stagnant at x number of users. I think idealism colors perspectives but reality is much more grey than either side is willing to cede, perhaps.

idobai 10y ago
Alternatively, if you don't need: privacy, a fast OS with a diverse set of desktops for power users, comfortable development environment with power tools, security, open standards, sane package management(don't even mention Program Files and Control Panel...) and a helpful and progressive community then you'll be fine with windows. Yeah, you can run adobe and ms software natively, instead of using wine or crossover. Seriously, you either avoid the ms bloat or find alternatives(ez). The FOSS community needs an industry but doesn't need the industrial abuse. By default, NOBODY should depend on a company or a "network" of companies and their software. That's the sin of public education - selling the youth to companies. It's now like in Pascal Lainé's book - "L'Irrévolution(1971)" where the youth after finishing the school goes to the town's factory. There is no choice - you've been sold.

posterboy 10y ago

that's the point though, DRM-protection is largely incompatible with oss (it seems, but maybe not inherently so).