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Interesting to notice how europe banned antibiotics while China and US are doing nothing about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibiotic_use_in_livestock ht

Interesting to notice how europe banned antibiotics while China and US are doing nothing about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibiotic_use_in_livestock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibiotic_use_in_livestock

mschuster91 10y ago
> while China and US are doing nothing about it China doesn't really care about the environment. Their top priority is growth in order to avoid social unrest, and for feeding all the people they need all the food they can get - and if antibiotics makes farming more productive, they'll do it. The US, on the other hand, has the problem that Big Ag is a powerful lobby. And Trump, given his total lack of understanding on climate and environmental issues, won't do anything to change that.
- frozenport 10y ago
  I don't think it is Big Ag, because Big Ag would be more than happy to sell a premium product at a higher cost. It's more of a consumer demand thing.
  - Retric 10y ago
    No, you sell more product when the price decreases making the industry more profitable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons's_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons's_paradox is the same basic idea.
    - frozenport 10y ago
      I think the amount of food they can sell is limited by appetite. The only question is at what price point.
      - Retric 10y ago
        US corn production may have started by feeding people, then animals, then substituting for other food (corn syrup>sugar), then being burned in cars. Which just shows people tend to find ever wider demand for products as they get cheaper. Meat demand as price drops may end up in pet food or 'corn' flakes, but the usage does not really matter. In competitive markets producers tend to make a fixed percentage of sales as profits. Thus, increasing total sales tends to also increase industry profits.
- BurningFrog 10y ago
  China is in a phase of its development where the environment is not the most important thing. Once they're rich enough they'll put resources on fixing that. This is how every rich country went through industrialization. Not because they were all immoral, but because they were poor. The good news is that China is somehow doing this in fast forward. Each Chinese year seems to be 3 years in a regular economy, and their enormous push for solar power is (I hope) just one sign of what's to come.
  - BinaryWaves 10y ago
    China uses the most renewable resources of any nation and just committed to 2+ billion expansion of their development. Never wise to be dismissive and generalize an entire country when it is a complex landscape of ideals and practices
    - JabavuAdams 10y ago
      > China uses the most renewable resources of any nation Percentage-wise?
    - kayoone 10y ago
      Could be because they need to, not because they want to. The air pollution in some of their cities is downright hazardous so they have to do something and it also makes economic sense by now with the falling prices of solar. I don't buy that they are suddenly really interested in sustainability.
      - dpc59 10y ago
        Every one that's trying to save the environnement is doing it because we need to.
        kayoone 10y ago
        Some people actually believe in the concepts of sustainability for reasons beyond their own interests.
maxerickson 10y ago
The US has banned the use of medically important antibiotics as feed additives: https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/03/fda-livestock-antibiotics/ https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/03/fda-livestock-antibiotic... It's not a particularly aggressive action but it probably clears the 'nothing' bar.
- kevin_thibedeau 10y ago
  Lobbied for by domestic pharma no doubt.
- Fomite 10y ago
  It's the most direct "there is no good reason to use this" ban. There's really three reasons to use antibiotics in livestock: 1. Growth promotion 2. Prophylaxis 3. Treating disease. The ban hits #1. #3 really doesn't deserve to be banned - it's a legitimate use of antibiotics in veterinary medicine. #2 is where there's still a problem, because the use of antibiotics as a preventative runs the gamut from a perfectly legitimate veterinary intervention to an egregious misuse of antibiotics depending on the circumstance.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
Ovah 10y ago
The Wiki statement that Europe has banned antibiotics for growth promotion since 2006 may be true legally, but not in practice. In fact, Denmark has used antibiotics to prevent infections in pig farming[1] up until at least the summer of 2016[2]. As such, some farms have 88% of their pig population infected with MRSA (Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus)[3], and over 10,000 Danes have been infected with pig-MRSA.[4] (all sources in Swedish) [1]http://www.expressen.se/gt/darfor-ar-det-danska-griskottet-sa-billigt/ http://www.expressen.se/gt/darfor-ar-det-danska-griskottet-s... [2] http://www.lantbruk.com/lantbruk/tuffare-regler-kring-antibiotika-till-danska-grisar http://www.lantbruk.com/lantbruk/tuffare-regler-kring-antibi... [3] http://www.svt.se/nyheter/danska-bonder-kan-sprida-antibiotikaresistens http://www.svt.se/nyheter/danska-bonder-kan-sprida-antibioti... [4] http://www.svt.se/nyheter/utrikes/tusentals-danskar-smittade-av-mrsa-fran-grisar http://www.svt.se/nyheter/utrikes/tusentals-danskar-smittade...
- gmrple 10y ago
  MRSA (Methicillin Resistant Staphylococcus Aureus) I just don't want anyone thinking MRSA stands for anything it doesn't.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - richardwhiuk 10y ago
    What?
    - delackner 10y ago
      Myself included, many people read that to be Multiply Resistant, AKA resistant to most (all?) antibiotics.
      - richardwhiuk 10y ago
        That's nice, but incorrect, and I suspect a backcronym formed by not knowing what it stood for...
Fomite 10y ago
First, "Europe banned antibiotics" is a massive oversimplification, and ignores that similar steps are being taken in the U.S. Second, while the European bans are doing good things, it's far from perfect: http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2016/10/eu-report-animal-use-medically-important-antibiotics http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2016/10/eu-report... . Use of fluoroquinolones, macrolides and polymixins (including colistin) rose - Europe is weirdly fond of it.

mschuster91 10y ago

> while China and US are doing nothing about it China doesn't really care about the environment. Their top priority is growth in order to avoid social unrest, and for feeding all the people they need all the food they can get - and if antibiotics makes farming more productive, they'll do it. The US, on the other hand, has the problem that Big Ag is a powerful lobby. And Trump, given his total lack of understanding on climate and environmental issues, won't do anything to change that.

frozenport 10y ago
I don't think it is Big Ag, because Big Ag would be more than happy to sell a premium product at a higher cost. It's more of a consumer demand thing.
- Retric 10y ago
  No, you sell more product when the price decreases making the industry more profitable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons's_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons's_paradox is the same basic idea.
  - frozenport 10y ago
    I think the amount of food they can sell is limited by appetite. The only question is at what price point.
    - Retric 10y ago
      US corn production may have started by feeding people, then animals, then substituting for other food (corn syrup>sugar), then being burned in cars. Which just shows people tend to find ever wider demand for products as they get cheaper. Meat demand as price drops may end up in pet food or 'corn' flakes, but the usage does not really matter. In competitive markets producers tend to make a fixed percentage of sales as profits. Thus, increasing total sales tends to also increase industry profits.
BurningFrog 10y ago
China is in a phase of its development where the environment is not the most important thing. Once they're rich enough they'll put resources on fixing that. This is how every rich country went through industrialization. Not because they were all immoral, but because they were poor. The good news is that China is somehow doing this in fast forward. Each Chinese year seems to be 3 years in a regular economy, and their enormous push for solar power is (I hope) just one sign of what's to come.
- BinaryWaves 10y ago
  China uses the most renewable resources of any nation and just committed to 2+ billion expansion of their development. Never wise to be dismissive and generalize an entire country when it is a complex landscape of ideals and practices
  - JabavuAdams 10y ago
    > China uses the most renewable resources of any nation Percentage-wise?
  - kayoone 10y ago
    Could be because they need to, not because they want to. The air pollution in some of their cities is downright hazardous so they have to do something and it also makes economic sense by now with the falling prices of solar. I don't buy that they are suddenly really interested in sustainability.
    - dpc59 10y ago
      Every one that's trying to save the environnement is doing it because we need to.
      - kayoone 10y ago
        Some people actually believe in the concepts of sustainability for reasons beyond their own interests.

maxerickson 10y ago

The US has banned the use of medically important antibiotics as feed additives: https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/03/fda-livestock-antibiotics/ https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/03/fda-livestock-antibiotic... It's not a particularly aggressive action but it probably clears the 'nothing' bar.

kevin_thibedeau 10y ago
Lobbied for by domestic pharma no doubt.
Fomite 10y ago
It's the most direct "there is no good reason to use this" ban. There's really three reasons to use antibiotics in livestock: 1. Growth promotion 2. Prophylaxis 3. Treating disease. The ban hits #1. #3 really doesn't deserve to be banned - it's a legitimate use of antibiotics in veterinary medicine. #2 is where there's still a problem, because the use of antibiotics as a preventative runs the gamut from a perfectly legitimate veterinary intervention to an egregious misuse of antibiotics depending on the circumstance.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

Ovah 10y ago

The Wiki statement that Europe has banned antibiotics for growth promotion since 2006 may be true legally, but not in practice. In fact, Denmark has used antibiotics to prevent infections in pig farming[1] up until at least the summer of 2016[2]. As such, some farms have 88% of their pig population infected with MRSA (Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus)[3], and over 10,000 Danes have been infected with pig-MRSA.[4] (all sources in Swedish) [1]http://www.expressen.se/gt/darfor-ar-det-danska-griskottet-sa-billigt/ http://www.expressen.se/gt/darfor-ar-det-danska-griskottet-s... [2] http://www.lantbruk.com/lantbruk/tuffare-regler-kring-antibiotika-till-danska-grisar http://www.lantbruk.com/lantbruk/tuffare-regler-kring-antibi... [3] http://www.svt.se/nyheter/danska-bonder-kan-sprida-antibiotikaresistens http://www.svt.se/nyheter/danska-bonder-kan-sprida-antibioti... [4] http://www.svt.se/nyheter/utrikes/tusentals-danskar-smittade-av-mrsa-fran-grisar http://www.svt.se/nyheter/utrikes/tusentals-danskar-smittade...

gmrple 10y ago
MRSA (Methicillin Resistant Staphylococcus Aureus) I just don't want anyone thinking MRSA stands for anything it doesn't.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- richardwhiuk 10y ago
  What?
  - delackner 10y ago
    Myself included, many people read that to be Multiply Resistant, AKA resistant to most (all?) antibiotics.
    - richardwhiuk 10y ago
      That's nice, but incorrect, and I suspect a backcronym formed by not knowing what it stood for...

Fomite 10y ago

First, "Europe banned antibiotics" is a massive oversimplification, and ignores that similar steps are being taken in the U.S. Second, while the European bans are doing good things, it's far from perfect: http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2016/10/eu-report-animal-use-medically-important-antibiotics http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2016/10/eu-report... . Use of fluoroquinolones, macrolides and polymixins (including colistin) rose - Europe is weirdly fond of it.