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I can imagine that it's possible to visit SF and not experience aggressive panhandling, the shouts of people with mental health issues, public urination and def

by Inconel 10y ago

I can imagine that it's possible to visit SF and not experience aggressive panhandling, the shouts of people with mental health issues, public urination and defecation, and open drug use, but I find it very hard to believe you could experience much of the city without the smell of urine at least a few times. Even touristy, well trafficked areas, Powell St station for instance, will very often smell of urine. On my most recent visit back to the city around the holidays, I saw a young looking couple shooting up on 21st and Valencia, albeit this was at night, and I almost had someone poop on me while waiting at the crosswalk at Sutter and Montgomery, this was at 4pm on a Sunday afternoon.

manarth 10y ago
I find it very hard to believe you could experience much of the city without the smell of urine at least a few times. To be fair, there are parts of all cities that I expect to smell of urine: there's something about stairwells in multi-storey car parks that seems to demand it [1]. So it's quite possible that I did experience that, but in a context where it was such a commonplace experience that it simply didn't stick in my memory. I almost had someone poop on me while waiting at the crosswalk at Sutter and Montgomery I can't help wondering, in a kind of morbid fascination sense, the mechanics of this. Was someone hanging their bum out of the window? Crouching down next to you whilst you were waiting for the lights to change? [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/blog/2009/mar/27/ncp-smelly-car-parks https://www.theguardian.com/technology/blog/2009/mar/27/ncp-...
- Inconel 10y ago
  Good point about the multi story garages. And I apologize if my comment came off as too dismissive. As you said, we're all dealing in anecdata here and your anecdotes are just as valid as mine. Although, I will reiterate that in my experience both as a normal resident and a homeless resident of SF, I found the homeless population particularly aggressive and at times unstable and violent. Regarding the narrowly escaping pooping incident, yes, I was waiting for the lights to change and not paying much attention when an older woman crouched down on the curb 3-4 feet to my side and relived herself. Without getting into too much detail, what came out was rather liquified and I only noticed her as I saw it hit the pavement in front of me.
  - manarth 10y ago
    Good grief, I can see why a bizarre incident like that would stick in your mind. That said, I can relate a story where I was ordering takeaway on a Friday evening in (the UK city) Bristol, when one of the customers started weeing where they were sat, on a bar stool at the counter. I think some of these incidents are a reflection of cities in general, but also - like shark attacks and plane crashes - they're talked about because they are so unusual and rare. The consequent discussions aren't necessarily proportionate to the number of incidents. I also wonder whether the "must relocate to San Francisco" phenomenon has brought in people who have previously lived in more suburban or rural surroundings, and are attributing their changed experiences specifically to SF, rather than to cities in general. Or it could simply be that SF does have a significantly different homeless population to most cities, which would make for a fascinating study in behavioural science. It sounds like your experiences support that, and I'll keep an open mind to the question.
    - Inconel 10y ago
      You make an excellent point again on the risk of letting personal experiences unduly influence perspective. And I've embarrassingly never considered your point about the transient nature of tech employment in SF possibly bringing people into contact with the homeless that don't have any prior experience dealing with them. Great point and I can definitely see how this could color their experience.

by Inconel 10y ago

manarth 10y ago

I find it very hard to believe you could experience much of the city without the smell of urine at least a few times. To be fair, there are parts of all cities that I expect to smell of urine: there's something about stairwells in multi-storey car parks that seems to demand it [1]. So it's quite possible that I did experience that, but in a context where it was such a commonplace experience that it simply didn't stick in my memory. I almost had someone poop on me while waiting at the crosswalk at Sutter and Montgomery I can't help wondering, in a kind of morbid fascination sense, the mechanics of this. Was someone hanging their bum out of the window? Crouching down next to you whilst you were waiting for the lights to change? [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/blog/2009/mar/27/ncp-smelly-car-parks https://www.theguardian.com/technology/blog/2009/mar/27/ncp-...

Inconel 10y ago
Good point about the multi story garages. And I apologize if my comment came off as too dismissive. As you said, we're all dealing in anecdata here and your anecdotes are just as valid as mine. Although, I will reiterate that in my experience both as a normal resident and a homeless resident of SF, I found the homeless population particularly aggressive and at times unstable and violent. Regarding the narrowly escaping pooping incident, yes, I was waiting for the lights to change and not paying much attention when an older woman crouched down on the curb 3-4 feet to my side and relived herself. Without getting into too much detail, what came out was rather liquified and I only noticed her as I saw it hit the pavement in front of me.
- manarth 10y ago
  Good grief, I can see why a bizarre incident like that would stick in your mind. That said, I can relate a story where I was ordering takeaway on a Friday evening in (the UK city) Bristol, when one of the customers started weeing where they were sat, on a bar stool at the counter. I think some of these incidents are a reflection of cities in general, but also - like shark attacks and plane crashes - they're talked about because they are so unusual and rare. The consequent discussions aren't necessarily proportionate to the number of incidents. I also wonder whether the "must relocate to San Francisco" phenomenon has brought in people who have previously lived in more suburban or rural surroundings, and are attributing their changed experiences specifically to SF, rather than to cities in general. Or it could simply be that SF does have a significantly different homeless population to most cities, which would make for a fascinating study in behavioural science. It sounds like your experiences support that, and I'll keep an open mind to the question.
  - Inconel 10y ago
    You make an excellent point again on the risk of letting personal experiences unduly influence perspective. And I've embarrassingly never considered your point about the transient nature of tech employment in SF possibly bringing people into contact with the homeless that don't have any prior experience dealing with them. Great point and I can definitely see how this could color their experience.