3 ms·

I'm not at all surprised to see your comment being downvoted here but I largely agree. While most of the US is far too intolerant of homeless, and general issu

by Inconel 10y ago

I'm not at all surprised to see your comment being downvoted here but I largely agree. While most of the US is far too intolerant of homeless, and general issues of poverty, I think SF's brand of tolerance can sometimes swing too far in the other direction. SF's tolerance almost borders on apathy at times. I would also add that in addition to making the city less hospitable to children and the elderly, it can also make it tough to survive as a homeless person who doesn't want to have to use physical force to protect themselves from other homeless.

dagw 10y ago
I think the down votes come from him equating crazy homeless people and human feces with gays and BDSM practioners.
- throwanem 10y ago
  I mean I sort of get where he's coming from; the Folsom Street Festival and Mr. S Leather aren't really what I'd consider proper for children either, however well I personally might think of them. Where he's mixed up seems rather to be in imagining every day in SF is the Folsom Street Festival, and every store is Mr. S. Admittedly I've only visited SF myself, and rarely at that, and in considerable part specifically for the purpose of partaking in activities which are in no sense proper for children. But the very strong impression with which I've come away is that of a relatively ordinary town that's a bit unusually up itself but which also really knows how to let its hair down, rather than the latter-day Sodom which our interlocutor makes it out to be.
  - dagw 10y ago
    Agreed. I'm not saying take your kids to the Folsom Street Fair, but rather that it's easy to avoid if you want to. More importantly, unlike human feces and homeless crazy people, it's in no way a problem that needs to be dealt with or removed.
state_less 10y ago
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but if you're saying that San Francisco is easy on the homeless, I don't see it. It seems worse these days, the public bathrooms are often closed. And business's won't let you use their toilet unless you pay them something. It should come as no surprise then when you smell urine, residents haven't taken care of the most basic of needs. Then they'll say, "They spend 15 mins in the bathroom taking a shower in the sink." And again, I wonder where people expect them to clean up. The public showers often aren't turned on or available, except at the beach. Isn't it obvious that the better off folks are doing this to themselves? If your a resident, you've got the money. Build them some public toilets and showers. Heck build them some housing. I think we are only talking about 10-20k units. If you even put $50M a year into this (small potatoes for SF), you'll see some marked improvements in a few (3-4) yrs.
- cobookman 10y ago
  Where would you put these 10-20k units. How much would land cost? And would the homeless even want to live in these units. I've talked to many homeless on the streets and most don't want to go to the homeless shelters, they prefer their tents. And just about all of them have some sort of mental illness and/or drug addiction. I don't think sf realistically has enough money to properly address the issue. And if we did give the best care in the nation, we'd get even more homeless at our door. My hope is that homelessness becomes a national issue and that we can send the homeless to states with a cheaper cost of living where we can afford to provide them the help which is necessary.
  - state_less 10y ago
    I agree, homelessness should be a national issue as part of our other care taking measures/movements (e.g. Single payer health care). That said, a solution is at your doorstep, when you have a desirable place to live, like SF, you have a ton of money flowing in which you can use to take care of folks with less means that want to live in the area. $50M a year isn't too bad and if you've got the support for the money, you ought to be able to get support for some high rises (money often being the harder thing to get support for). Buy a variety of locations, the good ones go to those showing improvements (e.g. getting off hard drugs, going to school). The mid to best spots should easily be better than a tent. Add some gardening programs and community related stuff (helps mental well being). I'm in favor of the government supplying drugs with clean needless and massive disgusting adverts on the needles about how bad it is for you. Saves cost on aids and other diseases related to the problem. Bonus money if you can keep your friend clean. Try to help the community help itself. Stuff like that. Also, I can think of lots of tech that would help the situation, but there isn't a profit motive, so it doesn't exist (yet).

by Inconel 10y ago

dagw 10y ago

I think the down votes come from him equating crazy homeless people and human feces with gays and BDSM practioners.

throwanem 10y ago
I mean I sort of get where he's coming from; the Folsom Street Festival and Mr. S Leather aren't really what I'd consider proper for children either, however well I personally might think of them. Where he's mixed up seems rather to be in imagining every day in SF is the Folsom Street Festival, and every store is Mr. S. Admittedly I've only visited SF myself, and rarely at that, and in considerable part specifically for the purpose of partaking in activities which are in no sense proper for children. But the very strong impression with which I've come away is that of a relatively ordinary town that's a bit unusually up itself but which also really knows how to let its hair down, rather than the latter-day Sodom which our interlocutor makes it out to be.
- dagw 10y ago
  Agreed. I'm not saying take your kids to the Folsom Street Fair, but rather that it's easy to avoid if you want to. More importantly, unlike human feces and homeless crazy people, it's in no way a problem that needs to be dealt with or removed.

state_less 10y ago

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but if you're saying that San Francisco is easy on the homeless, I don't see it. It seems worse these days, the public bathrooms are often closed. And business's won't let you use their toilet unless you pay them something. It should come as no surprise then when you smell urine, residents haven't taken care of the most basic of needs. Then they'll say, "They spend 15 mins in the bathroom taking a shower in the sink." And again, I wonder where people expect them to clean up. The public showers often aren't turned on or available, except at the beach. Isn't it obvious that the better off folks are doing this to themselves? If your a resident, you've got the money. Build them some public toilets and showers. Heck build them some housing. I think we are only talking about 10-20k units. If you even put $50M a year into this (small potatoes for SF), you'll see some marked improvements in a few (3-4) yrs.

cobookman 10y ago
Where would you put these 10-20k units. How much would land cost? And would the homeless even want to live in these units. I've talked to many homeless on the streets and most don't want to go to the homeless shelters, they prefer their tents. And just about all of them have some sort of mental illness and/or drug addiction. I don't think sf realistically has enough money to properly address the issue. And if we did give the best care in the nation, we'd get even more homeless at our door. My hope is that homelessness becomes a national issue and that we can send the homeless to states with a cheaper cost of living where we can afford to provide them the help which is necessary.
- state_less 10y ago
  I agree, homelessness should be a national issue as part of our other care taking measures/movements (e.g. Single payer health care). That said, a solution is at your doorstep, when you have a desirable place to live, like SF, you have a ton of money flowing in which you can use to take care of folks with less means that want to live in the area. $50M a year isn't too bad and if you've got the support for the money, you ought to be able to get support for some high rises (money often being the harder thing to get support for). Buy a variety of locations, the good ones go to those showing improvements (e.g. getting off hard drugs, going to school). The mid to best spots should easily be better than a tent. Add some gardening programs and community related stuff (helps mental well being). I'm in favor of the government supplying drugs with clean needless and massive disgusting adverts on the needles about how bad it is for you. Saves cost on aids and other diseases related to the problem. Bonus money if you can keep your friend clean. Try to help the community help itself. Stuff like that. Also, I can think of lots of tech that would help the situation, but there isn't a profit motive, so it doesn't exist (yet).