4 ms·

I visited SF a tourist just over a year ago, and I didn't experience any of the issues being described. Sure, in places, there were homeless people sitting in

by manarth 10y ago

I visited SF a tourist just over a year ago, and I didn't experience any of the issues being described. Sure, in places, there were homeless people sitting in doorways, and some of them asked whether I could spare any change - much like homeless people in many other cities. I didn't experience any of them shouting at me, shooting up drugs, demanding money, or peeing in the street. I didn't notice anywhere smelling of urine (although the sea lions around Pier 39 where a little bit stinky). SF has its issues, like most cities around the world, but I don't think they're as severe or widespread as is being suggested.

justin_vanw 10y ago
You visited a bunch of the 'clean' tourist neighborhoods. How can you actually think you are qualified to have an opinion here after visiting part of a city one time?
- manarth 10y ago
  How can you actually think you are qualified to have an opinion here after visiting part of a city one time? Well, you know what they say: "Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks." There's very little data in these comments. Lots of anecdata, and I'm presenting an alternative perspective with my anecdata, but until there's actual data in the discussion, I'm not sure that we should be dismissing someone else's opinion out of hand. From the context: parent said "as a European who has made some trips to America but never been to SF in particular", so I thought it appropriate to reply with my experience as a European who has been to SF in particular. My experience there was simply my experience: I didn't observe the antisocial behaviour being described, so it's fair to say that it's not common behaviour (in the areas I visited). That's not to say it doesn't exist, or that it isn't more common elsewhere in SF. That said, homeless people do tend to congregate in areas where tourists visit, so you would expect the density of homeless people to be highest in those tourist areas, and for those places to experience the most severe issues.
Inconel 10y ago
I can imagine that it's possible to visit SF and not experience aggressive panhandling, the shouts of people with mental health issues, public urination and defecation, and open drug use, but I find it very hard to believe you could experience much of the city without the smell of urine at least a few times. Even touristy, well trafficked areas, Powell St station for instance, will very often smell of urine. On my most recent visit back to the city around the holidays, I saw a young looking couple shooting up on 21st and Valencia, albeit this was at night, and I almost had someone poop on me while waiting at the crosswalk at Sutter and Montgomery, this was at 4pm on a Sunday afternoon.
- manarth 10y ago
  I find it very hard to believe you could experience much of the city without the smell of urine at least a few times. To be fair, there are parts of all cities that I expect to smell of urine: there's something about stairwells in multi-storey car parks that seems to demand it [1]. So it's quite possible that I did experience that, but in a context where it was such a commonplace experience that it simply didn't stick in my memory. I almost had someone poop on me while waiting at the crosswalk at Sutter and Montgomery I can't help wondering, in a kind of morbid fascination sense, the mechanics of this. Was someone hanging their bum out of the window? Crouching down next to you whilst you were waiting for the lights to change? [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/blog/2009/mar/27/ncp-smelly-car-parks https://www.theguardian.com/technology/blog/2009/mar/27/ncp-...
  - Inconel 10y ago
    Good point about the multi story garages. And I apologize if my comment came off as too dismissive. As you said, we're all dealing in anecdata here and your anecdotes are just as valid as mine. Although, I will reiterate that in my experience both as a normal resident and a homeless resident of SF, I found the homeless population particularly aggressive and at times unstable and violent. Regarding the narrowly escaping pooping incident, yes, I was waiting for the lights to change and not paying much attention when an older woman crouched down on the curb 3-4 feet to my side and relived herself. Without getting into too much detail, what came out was rather liquified and I only noticed her as I saw it hit the pavement in front of me.

by manarth 10y ago

justin_vanw 10y ago

You visited a bunch of the 'clean' tourist neighborhoods. How can you actually think you are qualified to have an opinion here after visiting part of a city one time?

manarth 10y ago
How can you actually think you are qualified to have an opinion here after visiting part of a city one time? Well, you know what they say: "Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks." There's very little data in these comments. Lots of anecdata, and I'm presenting an alternative perspective with my anecdata, but until there's actual data in the discussion, I'm not sure that we should be dismissing someone else's opinion out of hand. From the context: parent said "as a European who has made some trips to America but never been to SF in particular", so I thought it appropriate to reply with my experience as a European who has been to SF in particular. My experience there was simply my experience: I didn't observe the antisocial behaviour being described, so it's fair to say that it's not common behaviour (in the areas I visited). That's not to say it doesn't exist, or that it isn't more common elsewhere in SF. That said, homeless people do tend to congregate in areas where tourists visit, so you would expect the density of homeless people to be highest in those tourist areas, and for those places to experience the most severe issues.

Inconel 10y ago

I can imagine that it's possible to visit SF and not experience aggressive panhandling, the shouts of people with mental health issues, public urination and defecation, and open drug use, but I find it very hard to believe you could experience much of the city without the smell of urine at least a few times. Even touristy, well trafficked areas, Powell St station for instance, will very often smell of urine. On my most recent visit back to the city around the holidays, I saw a young looking couple shooting up on 21st and Valencia, albeit this was at night, and I almost had someone poop on me while waiting at the crosswalk at Sutter and Montgomery, this was at 4pm on a Sunday afternoon.

manarth 10y ago
I find it very hard to believe you could experience much of the city without the smell of urine at least a few times. To be fair, there are parts of all cities that I expect to smell of urine: there's something about stairwells in multi-storey car parks that seems to demand it [1]. So it's quite possible that I did experience that, but in a context where it was such a commonplace experience that it simply didn't stick in my memory. I almost had someone poop on me while waiting at the crosswalk at Sutter and Montgomery I can't help wondering, in a kind of morbid fascination sense, the mechanics of this. Was someone hanging their bum out of the window? Crouching down next to you whilst you were waiting for the lights to change? [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/blog/2009/mar/27/ncp-smelly-car-parks https://www.theguardian.com/technology/blog/2009/mar/27/ncp-...
- Inconel 10y ago
  Good point about the multi story garages. And I apologize if my comment came off as too dismissive. As you said, we're all dealing in anecdata here and your anecdotes are just as valid as mine. Although, I will reiterate that in my experience both as a normal resident and a homeless resident of SF, I found the homeless population particularly aggressive and at times unstable and violent. Regarding the narrowly escaping pooping incident, yes, I was waiting for the lights to change and not paying much attention when an older woman crouched down on the curb 3-4 feet to my side and relived herself. Without getting into too much detail, what came out was rather liquified and I only noticed her as I saw it hit the pavement in front of me.