4 ms·

Oh yes, the JVM is a pain.. 30 seconds just to start the app is a tough sell for a naturally-speed-obsessed C++ coder like myself. I've used 'the JVM argument'

Oh yes, the JVM is a pain.. 30 seconds just to start the app is a tough sell for a naturally-speed-obsessed C++ coder like myself. I've used 'the JVM argument' to justify putting the language aside for a year or so, but now I'm back and it doesn't seem to bother me as much.

patricius 10y ago
It seems that the JVM cannot be blamed for the slow startup time when using Clojure, but compiling Clojure's own core library is what makes it slow. And if you begin to add dependencies it will become even slower. The itself JVM is able to start quite quickly.
- dualogy 10y ago
  > but compiling Clojure's own core library is what makes it slow Why would it do that every time one compiles one's project? Surely Clojure must keep a cached linkable byte-code/binary somewhere per version/OS/arch, as all modern languages seem to do?
  - jgalt212 10y ago
    more on current official efforts and metrics here: http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Improving+Clojure+Start+Time http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Improving+Clojure+Star...
ww520 10y ago
Doesn't the C++ compiler take a while to finish compiling to let you run the program?
- throwaway7645 10y ago
  But you compile once, not everytime you run.
DigitalJack 10y ago
Startup times are unpleasant, but my main reservation about the JVM is oracle. I invested a lot of time in learning clojure, but Oracle concerns me enough that I'd rather not build my knowledge stack on them. So I've stopped using clojure. I may look into clojure script again in the future, but it still feels like a kludgey experience to me. Inspite of the amazing efforts by David Nolan and the community.
- JBiserkov 10y ago
  There is also a .NET port that tracks the Java version pretty closely: https://github.com/clojure/clojure-clr https://github.com/clojure/clojure-clr
zamalek 10y ago
Now that us Windows users are no longer forced to use the Oracle adware JVM[1], I really have no excuse. [1]: https://developers.redhat.com/products/openjdk/overview/ https://developers.redhat.com/products/openjdk/overview/

patricius 10y ago

It seems that the JVM cannot be blamed for the slow startup time when using Clojure, but compiling Clojure's own core library is what makes it slow. And if you begin to add dependencies it will become even slower. The itself JVM is able to start quite quickly.

dualogy 10y ago
> but compiling Clojure's own core library is what makes it slow Why would it do that every time one compiles one's project? Surely Clojure must keep a cached linkable byte-code/binary somewhere per version/OS/arch, as all modern languages seem to do?
- jgalt212 10y ago
  more on current official efforts and metrics here: http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Improving+Clojure+Start+Time http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Improving+Clojure+Star...

ww520 10y ago

Doesn't the C++ compiler take a while to finish compiling to let you run the program?

throwaway7645 10y ago
But you compile once, not everytime you run.

DigitalJack 10y ago

Startup times are unpleasant, but my main reservation about the JVM is oracle. I invested a lot of time in learning clojure, but Oracle concerns me enough that I'd rather not build my knowledge stack on them. So I've stopped using clojure. I may look into clojure script again in the future, but it still feels like a kludgey experience to me. Inspite of the amazing efforts by David Nolan and the community.

JBiserkov 10y ago
There is also a .NET port that tracks the Java version pretty closely: https://github.com/clojure/clojure-clr https://github.com/clojure/clojure-clr

zamalek 10y ago

Now that us Windows users are no longer forced to use the Oracle adware JVM[1], I really have no excuse. [1]: https://developers.redhat.com/products/openjdk/overview/ https://developers.redhat.com/products/openjdk/overview/