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Within the context of post 9/11 torture, one might wonder about the actual goal of such torture programs. I've never been entirely clear about the information

Within the context of post 9/11 torture, one might wonder about the actual goal of such torture programs. I've never been entirely clear about the information being searched for among supposed terrorists. Operating without state sponsors, terrorist cells are pretty threadbare, and don't have many valuable secrets. The secrets they might have are limited in use, and have a short shelf life. Then we read in the article: Here we have no direct data - after all, there have never been controlled torture trials that we know of... Given that the government has a monopoly on violence, maybe the entire goal all along was to conduct exactly this research as a non-survival experiment in humans, under an opportunistic pretense such that the subjects being expended would be considered despicable enough to waste on such exploration? Maybe doing so would fill in such knowlege gaps, and provide answers in the only way possible.

mjevans 10y ago
I'd be a lot more inclined to believe this if when the programs came to light the government de-classified the details that supported the theory you suggest. Since they've said nothing I'm going to continue to use Occam's Razor and believe that they did it either as a form of revenge or because they mistakenly believed in cargo cult of that being how stuff was done (likely thanks to Hollywood).
- true_religion 10y ago
  Considering the direct parallels someone would draw between scientifically studied torture and nazi experiments, I'd be surprised if anyone was allowed to officially sign off on this.
- closeparen 10y ago
  Hollywood tends to focus on short, intense scenes of pain stimulus such as beating, electrocution, etc. with a tearful confession coming after a few minutes. The torture program had much more to do with long-term engineering of a prisoner's environment with the goal of breaking down his humanity and spirit over a period of months and years: stress positions, sleep deprivation, loud music, extreme temperatures, and repeated fruitless water-boarding. I don't think we get to blame Hollywood for this. More like the techniques that our "advisors" were refining and teaching to repressive anti-communist regimes throughout the 20th century, finally applied by us instead of by proxy.
  - getpost 10y ago
    Actually, we do get to blame Hollywood (partly). http://www.berkeley.edu/news/berkeleyan/2008/03/05_torture.shtml http://www.berkeley.edu/news/berkeleyan/2008/03/05_torture.s... When I was a child/teen, it was popular to wonder about the effects of TV violence, and now we know. It appears many people are unable to distinguish between TV and reality. Monkey see, monkey do.

mjevans 10y ago

I'd be a lot more inclined to believe this if when the programs came to light the government de-classified the details that supported the theory you suggest. Since they've said nothing I'm going to continue to use Occam's Razor and believe that they did it either as a form of revenge or because they mistakenly believed in cargo cult of that being how stuff was done (likely thanks to Hollywood).

true_religion 10y ago
Considering the direct parallels someone would draw between scientifically studied torture and nazi experiments, I'd be surprised if anyone was allowed to officially sign off on this.
closeparen 10y ago
Hollywood tends to focus on short, intense scenes of pain stimulus such as beating, electrocution, etc. with a tearful confession coming after a few minutes. The torture program had much more to do with long-term engineering of a prisoner's environment with the goal of breaking down his humanity and spirit over a period of months and years: stress positions, sleep deprivation, loud music, extreme temperatures, and repeated fruitless water-boarding. I don't think we get to blame Hollywood for this. More like the techniques that our "advisors" were refining and teaching to repressive anti-communist regimes throughout the 20th century, finally applied by us instead of by proxy.
- getpost 10y ago
  Actually, we do get to blame Hollywood (partly). http://www.berkeley.edu/news/berkeleyan/2008/03/05_torture.shtml http://www.berkeley.edu/news/berkeleyan/2008/03/05_torture.s... When I was a child/teen, it was popular to wonder about the effects of TV violence, and now we know. It appears many people are unable to distinguish between TV and reality. Monkey see, monkey do.