9 ms·

They file thousands of worker visas because there's a "shortage" of qualified people, yet they also set a layoff target of 2,850 people back in June 2016... It

They file thousands of worker visas because there's a "shortage" of qualified people, yet they also set a layoff target of 2,850 people back in June 2016... It's like no one really cares if anything adds up anymore. Perhaps it was always this way?

WalterBright 10y ago
Qualified people are not interchangeable. I'm qualified for some jobs, and worse than useless for others. (You wouldn't pick me to formulate a new rocket fuel.)
- Hydraulix989 10y ago
  Software jobs don't just need quality people, there are actual costs associated with ramping up new employees and knowledge transfer of old ones. There's certain things employees keep in their heads that you can't quantify as lost mindshare when they are gone. Software has so much domain knowledge that there are all sorts of funny memes about what happens whenever the person that originally wrote the code leaves the company.
  - BinaryIdiot 10y ago
    You're forgetting but Microsoft isn't just a software shop. They also do quite a lot of hardware, games / VR, design among other things. I don't know who they're laying off but if they worked in, say, ARM Surface Hardware or maybe phone hardware engineering, they're going to have a smaller amount of places to go. Yes they could go learn software development but if they haven't done it that ramp up time is going to be years.
    - Hydraulix989 10y ago
      The same argument applies to hardware engineering (after all, so much of hardware engineering nowadays is coding, Verilog or otherwise). Also, it's worth noting that I'm very familiar with Microsoft.
- tlzrttbttzma 10y ago
  Software Engineers at Microsoft may as well be interchangeable. I was working there when they laid off 18,000 people. Everyone I knew personally who lost their job was rehired by the company within three months. One of them was even rehired to their original team, go figure. I saw good performers laid off while poor performers kept their jobs. I also saw poor performers rehired. The rumor at the time was that the list of people being laid off was chosen at random. That certainly makes sense, as it would allow the company to say, "We randomly laid off X% of people doing Y work in Z division." in the event of any discrimination or wrongful termination lawsuits. Companies of this size treat people as cogs in a machine. Provided all your cogs meet a certain minimum standard your machine functions well. If you need to cut down on the number of moving parts, you don't get too concerned over which individual cogs you get rid of. It's horrible and impersonal, but I guess it's somewhat necessary for a company like Microsoft.
  - untoreh 10y ago
    aren't layoffs/rehires also generally used to minimize workers benefits ?
- jstewartmobile 10y ago
  For some tasks this is true; for other tasks false. With programming, I've seen some great work done when good people are tasked with alien problems. I think the novelty gets people excited again while making them (temporarily) more careful.
mavelikara 10y ago
> It's like no one really cares if anything adds up anymore. Agreed. A company with 94000 people in US lays off 700 people, and its because of them worker visas.
- jstewartmobile 10y ago
  If this were just a trickle of 700 who were eased-out for performance reasons, I would accept your sarcasm. However, this was not easing-out. This was pre-planned. If you google "microsoft mass layoff", it's like they have these pre-ordained layoffs of thousands every year, while their visa certifications are in the low thousands every year. In this case, the 700 is just a single wave of a layoff planned the middle of last year. I am not knocking worker visas here. I am knocking Microsoft's honesty.

WalterBright 10y ago

Qualified people are not interchangeable. I'm qualified for some jobs, and worse than useless for others. (You wouldn't pick me to formulate a new rocket fuel.)

Hydraulix989 10y ago
Software jobs don't just need quality people, there are actual costs associated with ramping up new employees and knowledge transfer of old ones. There's certain things employees keep in their heads that you can't quantify as lost mindshare when they are gone. Software has so much domain knowledge that there are all sorts of funny memes about what happens whenever the person that originally wrote the code leaves the company.
- BinaryIdiot 10y ago
  You're forgetting but Microsoft isn't just a software shop. They also do quite a lot of hardware, games / VR, design among other things. I don't know who they're laying off but if they worked in, say, ARM Surface Hardware or maybe phone hardware engineering, they're going to have a smaller amount of places to go. Yes they could go learn software development but if they haven't done it that ramp up time is going to be years.
  - Hydraulix989 10y ago
    The same argument applies to hardware engineering (after all, so much of hardware engineering nowadays is coding, Verilog or otherwise). Also, it's worth noting that I'm very familiar with Microsoft.
tlzrttbttzma 10y ago
Software Engineers at Microsoft may as well be interchangeable. I was working there when they laid off 18,000 people. Everyone I knew personally who lost their job was rehired by the company within three months. One of them was even rehired to their original team, go figure. I saw good performers laid off while poor performers kept their jobs. I also saw poor performers rehired. The rumor at the time was that the list of people being laid off was chosen at random. That certainly makes sense, as it would allow the company to say, "We randomly laid off X% of people doing Y work in Z division." in the event of any discrimination or wrongful termination lawsuits. Companies of this size treat people as cogs in a machine. Provided all your cogs meet a certain minimum standard your machine functions well. If you need to cut down on the number of moving parts, you don't get too concerned over which individual cogs you get rid of. It's horrible and impersonal, but I guess it's somewhat necessary for a company like Microsoft.
- untoreh 10y ago
  aren't layoffs/rehires also generally used to minimize workers benefits ?
jstewartmobile 10y ago
For some tasks this is true; for other tasks false. With programming, I've seen some great work done when good people are tasked with alien problems. I think the novelty gets people excited again while making them (temporarily) more careful.

mavelikara 10y ago

> It's like no one really cares if anything adds up anymore. Agreed. A company with 94000 people in US lays off 700 people, and its because of them worker visas.

jstewartmobile 10y ago
If this were just a trickle of 700 who were eased-out for performance reasons, I would accept your sarcasm. However, this was not easing-out. This was pre-planned. If you google "microsoft mass layoff", it's like they have these pre-ordained layoffs of thousands every year, while their visa certifications are in the low thousands every year. In this case, the 700 is just a single wave of a layoff planned the middle of last year. I am not knocking worker visas here. I am knocking Microsoft's honesty.