4 ms·

Somebody had to come up with that originally so that everyone else would follow the format. BTW, your preferred data source is horribly lacking. No mention of

Somebody had to come up with that originally so that everyone else would follow the format. BTW, your preferred data source is horribly lacking. No mention of NESticle in the popular emulators? No mention that the first NES emulator (where this header comes from/was made for) was a COMMERCIAL emulator? I think you need to pick a better source for your data.

detaro 10y ago
That somebody had to come up with the format does not mean they have any rights on or over files using that format. Not sure why it would be relevant that iNES is commercial either.
eridius 10y ago
By your argument, the person who created the JPEG format now owns all JPEGs.
- lightedman 10y ago
  No, by my argument, they own the FILE FORMAT. Did Nintendo create the .NES header required for emulators to work with their games? No? Then where is their legal license to commercially use that header data which they did not create?
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - eridius 10y ago
    No, nobody owns the file format. When applicable, file formats are protected by patents, not copyrights, but you can't actually even patent a file format, any relevant patent would be on algorithms used to encode the data that is then used in the file format (and that's not applicable here).
    - lightedman 10y ago
      I said NOTHING about the file format being owned. The code inside, the header which EVERY EMULATOR USES, is the unique thing, and can be protected. By the way, every ROM ripping tool explicitly states "Non-commercial purposes" so Nintendo still violates a specific licensing limitation by using a ROM made using those tools, whether they own the property or not. Any way you try twisting this argument, you're going to lose, hard. Source: I own patents, have successfully defended my IP in court, and I actually read those little things that nobody else apparently does that LEGALLY puts restrictions upon the software use.
      - lightedman 10y ago
        Opps, I did say something about file format being owned but that's not what I meant. And if nobody can own a file format, please explain Adobe's patent on the PSD or DNG formats themselves (owning the specification = owning the format.)
        detaro 10y ago
        Quoting Adobe on DNG and patents: “Essential Claim” means a claim of a patent, whenever and wherever issued, that Adobe has the right to license without payment of royalty or other fee that is unavoidably infringed by implementation of the DNG Specification (from https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/digital-negative.html#dng https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/digital-negative.html#dng) The patents are not on the file format, but cover techniques required to implement an application reading it. Similar to how you have to pay to use e.g. MPEG4, since various companies have patented parts of the compression mechanisms. The patents don't cover just MPEG4, but any video format using these mechanisms.
      - detaro 10y ago
        > The code inside, the header which EVERY EMULATOR USES, is the unique thing, and can be protected. In my interpretation the bytes in the file are just a description of facts, and it is highly unlikely that the act of writing down facts about the cartridge in a specific way is enough to create a work on its own that could be protected. Calling them "code" IMHO would be quite misleading, since that would lead to confusion with a program or the executable code in the image. (Larger data sets/ROM collections might be protectable under database copyright laws in jurisdictions where those exist) Just to be sure: If you mean a software implementation reading/writing said header, that of course could have copyright protection. > By the way, every ROM ripping tool explicitly states "Non-commercial purposes" There are open-source (BSD licensed) tools that have no such limitations.

detaro 10y ago

That somebody had to come up with the format does not mean they have any rights on or over files using that format. Not sure why it would be relevant that iNES is commercial either.

eridius 10y ago

By your argument, the person who created the JPEG format now owns all JPEGs.

lightedman 10y ago
No, by my argument, they own the FILE FORMAT. Did Nintendo create the .NES header required for emulators to work with their games? No? Then where is their legal license to commercially use that header data which they did not create?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- eridius 10y ago
  No, nobody owns the file format. When applicable, file formats are protected by patents, not copyrights, but you can't actually even patent a file format, any relevant patent would be on algorithms used to encode the data that is then used in the file format (and that's not applicable here).
  - lightedman 10y ago
    I said NOTHING about the file format being owned. The code inside, the header which EVERY EMULATOR USES, is the unique thing, and can be protected. By the way, every ROM ripping tool explicitly states "Non-commercial purposes" so Nintendo still violates a specific licensing limitation by using a ROM made using those tools, whether they own the property or not. Any way you try twisting this argument, you're going to lose, hard. Source: I own patents, have successfully defended my IP in court, and I actually read those little things that nobody else apparently does that LEGALLY puts restrictions upon the software use.
    - lightedman 10y ago
      Opps, I did say something about file format being owned but that's not what I meant. And if nobody can own a file format, please explain Adobe's patent on the PSD or DNG formats themselves (owning the specification = owning the format.)
      - detaro 10y ago
        Quoting Adobe on DNG and patents: “Essential Claim” means a claim of a patent, whenever and wherever issued, that Adobe has the right to license without payment of royalty or other fee that is unavoidably infringed by implementation of the DNG Specification (from https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/digital-negative.html#dng https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/digital-negative.html#dng) The patents are not on the file format, but cover techniques required to implement an application reading it. Similar to how you have to pay to use e.g. MPEG4, since various companies have patented parts of the compression mechanisms. The patents don't cover just MPEG4, but any video format using these mechanisms.
    - detaro 10y ago
      > The code inside, the header which EVERY EMULATOR USES, is the unique thing, and can be protected. In my interpretation the bytes in the file are just a description of facts, and it is highly unlikely that the act of writing down facts about the cartridge in a specific way is enough to create a work on its own that could be protected. Calling them "code" IMHO would be quite misleading, since that would lead to confusion with a program or the executable code in the image. (Larger data sets/ROM collections might be protectable under database copyright laws in jurisdictions where those exist) Just to be sure: If you mean a software implementation reading/writing said header, that of course could have copyright protection. > By the way, every ROM ripping tool explicitly states "Non-commercial purposes" There are open-source (BSD licensed) tools that have no such limitations.