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Exactly, I don't see the problem here. It's their intellectual property, they can do whatever they want with it. Just because somebody else dumped it from a car

Exactly, I don't see the problem here. It's their intellectual property, they can do whatever they want with it. Just because somebody else dumped it from a cartridge and uploaded it, doesn't mean they own any kind of copyright or anything--Nintendo still does.

lightedman 10y ago
There's code in there that Nintendo didn't write and thus doesn't own. The .NES header which tells the machines how to set up the machine state. Basically, this means Nintendo is selling code it didn't write and has no authorization to resell. Doesn't matter if the game is theirs or not, the specific code added which they are using for virtual console is not their property.
- detaro 10y ago
  That's a 16 byte header which contains configuration flags describing the hardware of the cartridge and which target should be emulated, that's hardly "code" or copyrightable. https://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/INES#iNES_file_format https://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/INES#iNES_file_format
  - lightedman 10y ago
    Somebody had to come up with that originally so that everyone else would follow the format. BTW, your preferred data source is horribly lacking. No mention of NESticle in the popular emulators? No mention that the first NES emulator (where this header comes from/was made for) was a COMMERCIAL emulator? I think you need to pick a better source for your data.
    - detaro 10y ago
      That somebody had to come up with the format does not mean they have any rights on or over files using that format. Not sure why it would be relevant that iNES is commercial either.
    - eridius 10y ago
      By your argument, the person who created the JPEG format now owns all JPEGs.
      - lightedman 10y ago
        No, by my argument, they own the FILE FORMAT. Did Nintendo create the .NES header required for emulators to work with their games? No? Then where is their legal license to commercially use that header data which they did not create?
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
        eridius 10y ago
        No, nobody owns the file format. When applicable, file formats are protected by patents, not copyrights, but you can't actually even patent a file format, any relevant patent would be on algorithms used to encode the data that is then used in the file format (and that's not applicable here).
        lightedman 10y ago
        I said NOTHING about the file format being owned. The code inside, the header which EVERY EMULATOR USES, is the unique thing, and can be protected. By the way, every ROM ripping tool explicitly states "Non-commercial purposes" so Nintendo still violates a specific licensing limitation by using a ROM made using those tools, whether they own the property or not. Any way you try twisting this argument, you're going to lose, hard. Source: I own patents, have successfully defended my IP in court, and I actually read those little things that nobody else apparently does that LEGALLY puts restrictions upon the software use.
        lightedman 10y ago
        Opps, I did say something about file format being owned but that's not what I meant. And if nobody can own a file format, please explain Adobe's patent on the PSD or DNG formats themselves (owning the specification = owning the format.)
- akjainaj 10y ago
  I'm not familiar with that header, but by the sound of it, it sounds like it would be sort of a C struct with info about the ROM, not code. Isn't it possible that, if Nintendo had written the header in the ROM they're selling, it would be exactly the same as any other ROM dump from out there?
  - wmil 10y ago
    No. There's a string to identify the header in the file then a series of bit flags. You wouldn't create an identical header by accident Nintendo either downloaded the ROM or used pirate tools to make it.
    - eridius 10y ago
      Or they just re-used the format because it already exists and works perfectly well. Don't forget, the "format" in question is just a 16-byte header, it's trivial enough that it would actually be more effort to come up with a brand new format (with absolutely no benefit) than to just re-use the existing 16-byte header definition.

lightedman 10y ago

There's code in there that Nintendo didn't write and thus doesn't own. The .NES header which tells the machines how to set up the machine state. Basically, this means Nintendo is selling code it didn't write and has no authorization to resell. Doesn't matter if the game is theirs or not, the specific code added which they are using for virtual console is not their property.

detaro 10y ago
That's a 16 byte header which contains configuration flags describing the hardware of the cartridge and which target should be emulated, that's hardly "code" or copyrightable. https://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/INES#iNES_file_format https://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/INES#iNES_file_format
- lightedman 10y ago
  Somebody had to come up with that originally so that everyone else would follow the format. BTW, your preferred data source is horribly lacking. No mention of NESticle in the popular emulators? No mention that the first NES emulator (where this header comes from/was made for) was a COMMERCIAL emulator? I think you need to pick a better source for your data.
  - detaro 10y ago
    That somebody had to come up with the format does not mean they have any rights on or over files using that format. Not sure why it would be relevant that iNES is commercial either.
  - eridius 10y ago
    By your argument, the person who created the JPEG format now owns all JPEGs.
    - lightedman 10y ago
      No, by my argument, they own the FILE FORMAT. Did Nintendo create the .NES header required for emulators to work with their games? No? Then where is their legal license to commercially use that header data which they did not create?
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
      - eridius 10y ago
        No, nobody owns the file format. When applicable, file formats are protected by patents, not copyrights, but you can't actually even patent a file format, any relevant patent would be on algorithms used to encode the data that is then used in the file format (and that's not applicable here).
        lightedman 10y ago
        I said NOTHING about the file format being owned. The code inside, the header which EVERY EMULATOR USES, is the unique thing, and can be protected. By the way, every ROM ripping tool explicitly states "Non-commercial purposes" so Nintendo still violates a specific licensing limitation by using a ROM made using those tools, whether they own the property or not. Any way you try twisting this argument, you're going to lose, hard. Source: I own patents, have successfully defended my IP in court, and I actually read those little things that nobody else apparently does that LEGALLY puts restrictions upon the software use.
        lightedman 10y ago
        Opps, I did say something about file format being owned but that's not what I meant. And if nobody can own a file format, please explain Adobe's patent on the PSD or DNG formats themselves (owning the specification = owning the format.)
akjainaj 10y ago
I'm not familiar with that header, but by the sound of it, it sounds like it would be sort of a C struct with info about the ROM, not code. Isn't it possible that, if Nintendo had written the header in the ROM they're selling, it would be exactly the same as any other ROM dump from out there?
- wmil 10y ago
  No. There's a string to identify the header in the file then a series of bit flags. You wouldn't create an identical header by accident Nintendo either downloaded the ROM or used pirate tools to make it.
  - eridius 10y ago
    Or they just re-used the format because it already exists and works perfectly well. Don't forget, the "format" in question is just a 16-byte header, it's trivial enough that it would actually be more effort to come up with a brand new format (with absolutely no benefit) than to just re-use the existing 16-byte header definition.