4 ms·

It's a little more than the torrenting analogy. The ROM is in a format that was developed by and for emulators that they claim should not exist. They relied on

by sago 10y ago

It's a little more than the torrenting analogy. The ROM is in a format that was developed by and for emulators that they claim should not exist. They relied on the work put in by emulator creators that they tried to fight into nonexistence. Your last paragraph is pertinent question. But even if not an infringement, it is surely hypocrisy of the highest order.

eridius 10y ago
They used a format someone else defined. I don't know why you think that's hypocritical. It's not like defining a new file format is especially hard. If the format hadn't already existed, they could have created their own equivalent format. But since it does exist, it seems perfectly reasonable for Nintendo to re-use that format.
- pdkl95 10y ago
  The format isn't the hypocrisy. Nintendo has always been very consistently anti-emulation. They always attempt to frame emulators as software that enables "downloading illegally copied software"[1] to be played on "unauthorized hardware"[1]. Of course they never mention the word "emulator" when talking about their "virtual console" games or their GBA "ports" of NES games that simply emulated the original ROM. [1] https://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#emulator https://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#emulator
  - toast0 10y ago
    Virtual console and the NES classic are legally copied software played on authorized hardware, so it's not the same thing as what they've vivified. If you stuff illegally copied roms onto your mini NES, they're not really going to be happy either - I don't see how this is hypocritical.
    - pdkl95 10y ago
      This isn't about legal status. It's Nintendo's well-known bad attitude towards any use of their products that is even slightly outside their intended use. (Also, copyright is generally civil, not criminal. Copying a copyright protected work shouldn't be described as "illegal" or a crime, but may make you civilly liable for damages.) >> They always attempt to frame emulators as [...] For many, many years Nintendo tried to pain emulators as only being used to infringe copyright. They are have been dissembling about emulation (and copyright) for >15 years. "Emulator" is a bad word to Nintendo, far more so than other video game companies. This is why they called the network downloads on the Wii a "Virtual Console" (it's kind of like the original console, just "virtual"). They claim that the NES Classic "...is a miniaturized version of the groundbreaking NES, originally released in 1985."[1] which implies that they may have something resembling an actual 6502 when it's actually an Allwinner R16 SoC running Linux[2] and a software NES emulator. [1] http://www.nintendo.com/nes-classic/ http://www.nintendo.com/nes-classic/ [2] http://hackaday.com/2016/11/13/linux-on-your-nes-classic-edition/ http://hackaday.com/2016/11/13/linux-on-your-nes-classic-edi...
      - eridius 10y ago
        You're being overly pedantic. Yes, Nintendo says emulators are used to copyright infringement, but it should be blindingly obvious that they mean third-party emulators. Nintendo owns the actual hardware AND the games in question, so there's nothing at all wrong with them doing their own emulation, because they're obviously not infringing upon their own copyright.
        pdkl95 10y ago
        > there's nothing at all wrong with them doing their own emulation I never claimed otherwise. > they're obviously not infringing upon their own copyright. Obviously. Nobody is claiming otherwise. > You're being overly pedantic. Perhaps, if you're referring to the straw man you're creating. I'm talking about their attitude and their attempt to frame "emulation" as "piracy". Just like the movie studios that try to frame bittorrent as only a pirate tool, Nintendo has consistently refused to even acknowledge the existence of non-piracy uses of emulation. Now, many years later, Nintendo is just barely starting to understand that emulators have more uses than what their own rhetoric has claiming.
gramstrong 10y ago
How is it hypocritical? Hypocritical would be if Nintendo was caught illegally writing emulators of someone else's software. All they're doing is cutting their losses, they haven't done anything that conflicts with their stance on emulators.
- speeder 10y ago
  ROM dump people argue making a ROM is proper software archival, Nintendo disagree with that. The thing is, if Nintendo needed the ROM for whatever reason because it was an archive, then Nintendo would be wrong in saying ROM is not archival.

by sago 10y ago

eridius 10y ago

They used a format someone else defined. I don't know why you think that's hypocritical. It's not like defining a new file format is especially hard. If the format hadn't already existed, they could have created their own equivalent format. But since it does exist, it seems perfectly reasonable for Nintendo to re-use that format.

pdkl95 10y ago
The format isn't the hypocrisy. Nintendo has always been very consistently anti-emulation. They always attempt to frame emulators as software that enables "downloading illegally copied software"[1] to be played on "unauthorized hardware"[1]. Of course they never mention the word "emulator" when talking about their "virtual console" games or their GBA "ports" of NES games that simply emulated the original ROM. [1] https://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#emulator https://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#emulator
- toast0 10y ago
  Virtual console and the NES classic are legally copied software played on authorized hardware, so it's not the same thing as what they've vivified. If you stuff illegally copied roms onto your mini NES, they're not really going to be happy either - I don't see how this is hypocritical.
  - pdkl95 10y ago
    This isn't about legal status. It's Nintendo's well-known bad attitude towards any use of their products that is even slightly outside their intended use. (Also, copyright is generally civil, not criminal. Copying a copyright protected work shouldn't be described as "illegal" or a crime, but may make you civilly liable for damages.) >> They always attempt to frame emulators as [...] For many, many years Nintendo tried to pain emulators as only being used to infringe copyright. They are have been dissembling about emulation (and copyright) for >15 years. "Emulator" is a bad word to Nintendo, far more so than other video game companies. This is why they called the network downloads on the Wii a "Virtual Console" (it's kind of like the original console, just "virtual"). They claim that the NES Classic "...is a miniaturized version of the groundbreaking NES, originally released in 1985."[1] which implies that they may have something resembling an actual 6502 when it's actually an Allwinner R16 SoC running Linux[2] and a software NES emulator. [1] http://www.nintendo.com/nes-classic/ http://www.nintendo.com/nes-classic/ [2] http://hackaday.com/2016/11/13/linux-on-your-nes-classic-edition/ http://hackaday.com/2016/11/13/linux-on-your-nes-classic-edi...
    - eridius 10y ago
      You're being overly pedantic. Yes, Nintendo says emulators are used to copyright infringement, but it should be blindingly obvious that they mean third-party emulators. Nintendo owns the actual hardware AND the games in question, so there's nothing at all wrong with them doing their own emulation, because they're obviously not infringing upon their own copyright.
      - pdkl95 10y ago
        > there's nothing at all wrong with them doing their own emulation I never claimed otherwise. > they're obviously not infringing upon their own copyright. Obviously. Nobody is claiming otherwise. > You're being overly pedantic. Perhaps, if you're referring to the straw man you're creating. I'm talking about their attitude and their attempt to frame "emulation" as "piracy". Just like the movie studios that try to frame bittorrent as only a pirate tool, Nintendo has consistently refused to even acknowledge the existence of non-piracy uses of emulation. Now, many years later, Nintendo is just barely starting to understand that emulators have more uses than what their own rhetoric has claiming.

gramstrong 10y ago

How is it hypocritical? Hypocritical would be if Nintendo was caught illegally writing emulators of someone else's software. All they're doing is cutting their losses, they haven't done anything that conflicts with their stance on emulators.

speeder 10y ago
ROM dump people argue making a ROM is proper software archival, Nintendo disagree with that. The thing is, if Nintendo needed the ROM for whatever reason because it was an archive, then Nintendo would be wrong in saying ROM is not archival.