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So you're saying that because you took what you wanted now no one else is allowed any? That is called pulling up the ladder behind you. It is extremely selfish.

So you're saying that because you took what you wanted now no one else is allowed any? That is called pulling up the ladder behind you. It is extremely selfish. I also wouldn't group the Maori with Aboriginies or the Indigenous peoples of America, sure European settlement was bad for them and we as a society are still struggling with the fallout of that, but Maori were always equal under law and could vote from the first elections. Where land was taken by force the government has now redressed the damage and either returned the land, equivalent land, or money and assets of equivalent value. The American government on the other hand took trillions of dollars worth of assets from the Native American tribes and forced them to live in sub-par reservations, some are still living in third world conditions, they couldn't vote until the 1960s in some states. That is not the way for a civilised society to run.

Arizhel 10y ago
>So you're saying that because you took what you wanted now no one else is allowed any? That is called pulling up the ladder behind you. It is extremely selfish. Please point out where I said any such thing. Edit: stupid Windows cut-and-paste failed on my quoted text, fixed.
- disordinary 10y ago
  Sorry if I misunderstood, I thought it was implied that you were defending the racists from earlier in the conversation.
  - Arizhel 10y ago
    Call it what you want: I'm both agreeing with you (who said that mass migration by Europeans to the Americas was bad) and with the other guy who said that what's going on in Palestine is wrong. Simply put, I can't think of a single example where a mass migration of people turned out to be a good thing for the people already living in the destination. If it's "racist" to claim that the Native American societies suffered horribly (and many were completely obliterated) as a result of European colonization, then so be it. It's weird, I've somehow gone from a leftist to a racist right-winger in just a few years without changing my opinions at all. It used to be that recognizing the tragedy that was European migration to the Americas was more a sign of someone of a more liberal persuasion. Nowadays it seems the opposite is the case, only the "racists" feel a sense of shame about what our European ancestors did to the Natives. Weird.
    - disordinary 10y ago
      You're opinion is correct. I completely misunderstood your position based on the previous conversations I have had. The problem is that you're missing context on the other guys position, and the "conversation" that had gone on between us previously. His idea is that white people are inherently superior and therefore have the right to take what they want at the expense of others. He threw all sorts of nonsense statistics at me in an earlier comment. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
      - Arizhel 10y ago
        I see, sorry for my misunderstanding then. Personally, I think mass migrations are all bad, and migrations should be controlled to minimize disruption. "Everything in moderation" as they say. I think some immigration is a very good thing, no immigration leads to stagnation, and open-borders leads to too many problems. I definitely don't agree with any racist BS about any group of people having the right to take what they want at the expense of others. I do still maintain, however, that (this isn't directed at you at all) sometimes when talking to some people on the left, I really do feel like a right-wing extremist... I guess that's the problem with extremism: it happens on both (all) sides, so compared to the true extremist, someone who's a moderate will seem to be on the opposite "side", esp. in this crappy American system where everything is distilled down to only 2 sides.
        disordinary 10y ago
        I agree, although I think that the western countries outside of Europe can do so much more for the humanitarian crisis that's going on and can drastically increase the refugee quotas.

Arizhel 10y ago

>So you're saying that because you took what you wanted now no one else is allowed any? That is called pulling up the ladder behind you. It is extremely selfish. Please point out where I said any such thing. Edit: stupid Windows cut-and-paste failed on my quoted text, fixed.

disordinary 10y ago
Sorry if I misunderstood, I thought it was implied that you were defending the racists from earlier in the conversation.
- Arizhel 10y ago
  Call it what you want: I'm both agreeing with you (who said that mass migration by Europeans to the Americas was bad) and with the other guy who said that what's going on in Palestine is wrong. Simply put, I can't think of a single example where a mass migration of people turned out to be a good thing for the people already living in the destination. If it's "racist" to claim that the Native American societies suffered horribly (and many were completely obliterated) as a result of European colonization, then so be it. It's weird, I've somehow gone from a leftist to a racist right-winger in just a few years without changing my opinions at all. It used to be that recognizing the tragedy that was European migration to the Americas was more a sign of someone of a more liberal persuasion. Nowadays it seems the opposite is the case, only the "racists" feel a sense of shame about what our European ancestors did to the Natives. Weird.
  - disordinary 10y ago
    You're opinion is correct. I completely misunderstood your position based on the previous conversations I have had. The problem is that you're missing context on the other guys position, and the "conversation" that had gone on between us previously. His idea is that white people are inherently superior and therefore have the right to take what they want at the expense of others. He threw all sorts of nonsense statistics at me in an earlier comment. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
    - Arizhel 10y ago
      I see, sorry for my misunderstanding then. Personally, I think mass migrations are all bad, and migrations should be controlled to minimize disruption. "Everything in moderation" as they say. I think some immigration is a very good thing, no immigration leads to stagnation, and open-borders leads to too many problems. I definitely don't agree with any racist BS about any group of people having the right to take what they want at the expense of others. I do still maintain, however, that (this isn't directed at you at all) sometimes when talking to some people on the left, I really do feel like a right-wing extremist... I guess that's the problem with extremism: it happens on both (all) sides, so compared to the true extremist, someone who's a moderate will seem to be on the opposite "side", esp. in this crappy American system where everything is distilled down to only 2 sides.
      - disordinary 10y ago
        I agree, although I think that the western countries outside of Europe can do so much more for the humanitarian crisis that's going on and can drastically increase the refugee quotas.