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> to see the higher authorities side with the person that started the problems just to look politically correct and go against the "installed power" From the j

> to see the higher authorities side with the person that started the problems just to look politically correct and go against the "installed power" From the judge's opinion: "I accept that at least Rubin, as PI for plaintiff and a number of grad students and because he is head of the Rubin Lab, brings in a lot of funding and has a lot of authority at Harvard. So much authority that Cardozo would likely be deferential and not interfere with Rubin's choice to dismiss a grad student."

jbmorgado 10y ago
Exactly. You have the PI, someone that gets the funding and takes care of the research path (and a good research path, since you know that the PI is actually acknowledged worldwide in the field) for an all team of 35 people, and you behave like a spoiled brat and try to sabotage his work. This German guy didn't suffer any kind of racial or gender based discrimination by the PI, he just proved over more than one year that he was not the kind of person that could work in a team and the PI used what he could (although wrongly in the execution, cause sending someone to German's house in the middle of the night was wrong) to get rid of the guy. If the PI had more authority (and he obviously should have and now we wouldn't have this issue) he should have just told the guy to pack his things and leave since he was hurting the team and the research being carried out.
- nkurz 10y ago
  If the PI had more authority (and he obviously should have and now we wouldn't have this issue) he should have just told the guy to pack his things and leave since he was hurting the team and the research being carried out. Presumably you are saying this conditional upon the accusations of academic fraud being false? If the research was indeed being faked, I feel like the controversy is preferable to allowing such practices to continue. Or do you think that quietly removing German would have been a better outcome regardless?
  - jbmorgado 10y ago
    No in the case about academic fraud I'm with you, i.e. I do feel that it should be exposed if it existed (but on that theme I actually have a lot to say, because I see it as a failure of the publication methods and evaluation above all... but that is not related to this theme). What I find hard to believe is that, after all the issues that German had with the team before coming up with those accusations, those accusations are actually true. Specially given the exact accusation, which is quite odd, German claims that some (not all) points are false about experiments where he wasn't directly involved. Still, in any case, even without the issue of academic fraud and/or it's accusation existing, the previous behavior from German is not that of someone I would like to have my team as a colleague, much less if I was the PI. I never in my life had anything that amounted to this kind of trouble with any member of my team at work... much less with 5 of them. SO, on that light, I think there is a problem when the PI doesn't have enough authority to remove someone like German.
    - nkurz 10y ago
      What I find hard to believe is that, after all the issues that German had with the team before coming up with those accusations, those accusations are actually true. If the personality conflicts arose before the accusation of fraud, I'd agree with you, but it's not clear that this was the order of events. The judge's description suggests that the conflicts arose after the report of fraud, with the implication that despite anonymity the accused (who were the ones with whom there was conflict) immediately concluded that German was the source of the accusation. So for me, it all depends on whether the accusations of academic fraud of justified. If the accusations are true and substantial, German is probably the aggrieved party, or at least deserving of sympathy. If they are not, he is poisonous to the the lab and should be cast out. Without knowing the details of the complaint, I don't feel I have any way of knowing the probabilities of the different possibilities. Circumstantially, I was impressed though by the rationality and civility of German's communications that were cited in the judge's ruling[1]. His email to an undergraduate advisee explaining that he was unable to continue his labwork seemed like a model of tact and good communication: "Hi Alex, unfortunately, due to personal matters I'm off from school. I don't know when I'm coming back. Meanwhile, you have to find another mentor. I highly recommend you to contact Becca (Rebecca Gibbs) for a mentor since she is a very bright scientist (mentored by me) and she was interested in having an undergraduate. This is the most I can do for you at the moment. I'm very sorry about this. My best, Gustavo." That this was the letter used to justify the attempt to have German involuntarily committed for his own safety (emphasizing "I don't know when I'm coming back") makes me doubt the doubt the "good will" of the advisor. The judge shared this doubt, although it's entirely possible there is further background not brought up in the trial that would justify the advisor's concern. [1] https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:86cjl1rV_t0J:https://www.socialaw.com/services/slip-opinions/slip-opinion-details/gustavo-german-plaintiff-vs.-david-lopes-cardozo-and-lee-l.-rubin-defendants+&cd=1&hl=en https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:86cjl1...

jbmorgado 10y ago

Exactly. You have the PI, someone that gets the funding and takes care of the research path (and a good research path, since you know that the PI is actually acknowledged worldwide in the field) for an all team of 35 people, and you behave like a spoiled brat and try to sabotage his work. This German guy didn't suffer any kind of racial or gender based discrimination by the PI, he just proved over more than one year that he was not the kind of person that could work in a team and the PI used what he could (although wrongly in the execution, cause sending someone to German's house in the middle of the night was wrong) to get rid of the guy. If the PI had more authority (and he obviously should have and now we wouldn't have this issue) he should have just told the guy to pack his things and leave since he was hurting the team and the research being carried out.

nkurz 10y ago
If the PI had more authority (and he obviously should have and now we wouldn't have this issue) he should have just told the guy to pack his things and leave since he was hurting the team and the research being carried out. Presumably you are saying this conditional upon the accusations of academic fraud being false? If the research was indeed being faked, I feel like the controversy is preferable to allowing such practices to continue. Or do you think that quietly removing German would have been a better outcome regardless?
- jbmorgado 10y ago
  No in the case about academic fraud I'm with you, i.e. I do feel that it should be exposed if it existed (but on that theme I actually have a lot to say, because I see it as a failure of the publication methods and evaluation above all... but that is not related to this theme). What I find hard to believe is that, after all the issues that German had with the team before coming up with those accusations, those accusations are actually true. Specially given the exact accusation, which is quite odd, German claims that some (not all) points are false about experiments where he wasn't directly involved. Still, in any case, even without the issue of academic fraud and/or it's accusation existing, the previous behavior from German is not that of someone I would like to have my team as a colleague, much less if I was the PI. I never in my life had anything that amounted to this kind of trouble with any member of my team at work... much less with 5 of them. SO, on that light, I think there is a problem when the PI doesn't have enough authority to remove someone like German.
  - nkurz 10y ago
    What I find hard to believe is that, after all the issues that German had with the team before coming up with those accusations, those accusations are actually true. If the personality conflicts arose before the accusation of fraud, I'd agree with you, but it's not clear that this was the order of events. The judge's description suggests that the conflicts arose after the report of fraud, with the implication that despite anonymity the accused (who were the ones with whom there was conflict) immediately concluded that German was the source of the accusation. So for me, it all depends on whether the accusations of academic fraud of justified. If the accusations are true and substantial, German is probably the aggrieved party, or at least deserving of sympathy. If they are not, he is poisonous to the the lab and should be cast out. Without knowing the details of the complaint, I don't feel I have any way of knowing the probabilities of the different possibilities. Circumstantially, I was impressed though by the rationality and civility of German's communications that were cited in the judge's ruling[1]. His email to an undergraduate advisee explaining that he was unable to continue his labwork seemed like a model of tact and good communication: "Hi Alex, unfortunately, due to personal matters I'm off from school. I don't know when I'm coming back. Meanwhile, you have to find another mentor. I highly recommend you to contact Becca (Rebecca Gibbs) for a mentor since she is a very bright scientist (mentored by me) and she was interested in having an undergraduate. This is the most I can do for you at the moment. I'm very sorry about this. My best, Gustavo." That this was the letter used to justify the attempt to have German involuntarily committed for his own safety (emphasizing "I don't know when I'm coming back") makes me doubt the doubt the "good will" of the advisor. The judge shared this doubt, although it's entirely possible there is further background not brought up in the trial that would justify the advisor's concern. [1] https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:86cjl1rV_t0J:https://www.socialaw.com/services/slip-opinions/slip-opinion-details/gustavo-german-plaintiff-vs.-david-lopes-cardozo-and-lee-l.-rubin-defendants+&cd=1&hl=en https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:86cjl1...