3 ms·

This is awesome. The way that (often foreign, often on J1 or H1B or student visa) students are treated in major labs is often horrible. If this destroys Rubin

by apathy 10y ago

This is awesome. The way that (often foreign, often on J1 or H1B or student visa) students are treated in major labs is often horrible. If this destroys Rubin's lab, so much the better. Maybe he can serve as a warning to other PIs.

devoply 10y ago
Yes this sort of behavior is common. One of my dad's friends was doing his PhD as an immigrant in the 90s in the US and his professor did something similar to him. Had the police called and accused him of interfering with other people's experiments due to some small dispute that had nothing do with the lab. This is common fare behavior in the US research establishment against immigrants. Another friend ended up getting electroconvulsive therapy mostly as a result of dealing with a bad advisor, ending up in the hospital like this guy, and having the shrinks diagnose him with depression, etc. He had no family, they gave him ECD despite the fact that he did not want ECD on the recommendation of the shrinks, his personality changed significantly after that.
- apathy 10y ago
  I heard it was "worse" way "back then" but I had no idea how much worse. Without regulations and scrutiny, competitive people will push the envelope on how bad they can abuse others and for how little money. Gotta push back.
brd529 10y ago
I'm more saddened than anything. Rubin's lab is dedicated to studying Spinal Muscular Atrophy - the leading cause of infant death in the USA. My cousin died of SMA and it was absolutely devastating for my aunt and uncle. If Rubin's lab is destroyed by this, even if justified, it is a setback for SMA research. I wouldn't call it awesome.
- AnimalMuppet 10y ago
  If (note well that "if") Rubin's lab is fabricating data, is it still a setback for SMA research if Rubin's lab is destroyed? Or is the fabricating data already the setback for SMA research, and removing the fabricator is... maybe not a step forward, but at least stopping stepping back?
- apathy 10y ago
  You think that bogus work doesn't siphon funds away from good quality research? What universe do you live in? With a 10% pay line, even most good research won't get funded. For bogus research to get funded, better work MUST go unfunded. Guaranteed that will lead to more dead kids and a longer wait for effective treatments. And if Rubin was falsifying data, then so much the better if it wipes him out. Few things are more disgusting than preying on the horrible situation of kids with rare diseases just to crank out research indirects and promotions, mostly on the backs of slave-labor postdocs with no alternative employment in this country. So, to sum, if Rubin falsified the work, fuck him twice as hard as other frauds for his mendacity. If he did not, and this is all much ado over nothing, then I sincerely hope he will be vindicated and I wish him the best.
  - brd529 10y ago
    I agree. I guess what I meant to say is that either way it's sad. If it turns out he has been doing bogus research / falsifying the data then it's terrible for all the reasons you stated. Good that someone blew the whistle, but really sad. If it turns out he has been doing good research but this dispute means that the lab can't continue to function it's also a setback for the lines of research they were pursuing into SMA. I just, perhaps over-sensitively, took issue with characterizing the situation as awesome.
    - apathy 10y ago
      Fair enough, SMA is certainly not awesome for anyone whose kid is dying from it. I should be more measured in the words I choose. "It's a shame that a lab run by a guy who may be an asshole slave driver could negatively impact the perception of SMA research, but if he is in fact playing fast and loose with the facts, it will be better in the long term for him to stop working on SMA, or anything else"

by apathy 10y ago

devoply 10y ago

Yes this sort of behavior is common. One of my dad's friends was doing his PhD as an immigrant in the 90s in the US and his professor did something similar to him. Had the police called and accused him of interfering with other people's experiments due to some small dispute that had nothing do with the lab. This is common fare behavior in the US research establishment against immigrants. Another friend ended up getting electroconvulsive therapy mostly as a result of dealing with a bad advisor, ending up in the hospital like this guy, and having the shrinks diagnose him with depression, etc. He had no family, they gave him ECD despite the fact that he did not want ECD on the recommendation of the shrinks, his personality changed significantly after that.

apathy 10y ago
I heard it was "worse" way "back then" but I had no idea how much worse. Without regulations and scrutiny, competitive people will push the envelope on how bad they can abuse others and for how little money. Gotta push back.

brd529 10y ago

I'm more saddened than anything. Rubin's lab is dedicated to studying Spinal Muscular Atrophy - the leading cause of infant death in the USA. My cousin died of SMA and it was absolutely devastating for my aunt and uncle. If Rubin's lab is destroyed by this, even if justified, it is a setback for SMA research. I wouldn't call it awesome.

AnimalMuppet 10y ago
If (note well that "if") Rubin's lab is fabricating data, is it still a setback for SMA research if Rubin's lab is destroyed? Or is the fabricating data already the setback for SMA research, and removing the fabricator is... maybe not a step forward, but at least stopping stepping back?
apathy 10y ago
You think that bogus work doesn't siphon funds away from good quality research? What universe do you live in? With a 10% pay line, even most good research won't get funded. For bogus research to get funded, better work MUST go unfunded. Guaranteed that will lead to more dead kids and a longer wait for effective treatments. And if Rubin was falsifying data, then so much the better if it wipes him out. Few things are more disgusting than preying on the horrible situation of kids with rare diseases just to crank out research indirects and promotions, mostly on the backs of slave-labor postdocs with no alternative employment in this country. So, to sum, if Rubin falsified the work, fuck him twice as hard as other frauds for his mendacity. If he did not, and this is all much ado over nothing, then I sincerely hope he will be vindicated and I wish him the best.
- brd529 10y ago
  I agree. I guess what I meant to say is that either way it's sad. If it turns out he has been doing bogus research / falsifying the data then it's terrible for all the reasons you stated. Good that someone blew the whistle, but really sad. If it turns out he has been doing good research but this dispute means that the lab can't continue to function it's also a setback for the lines of research they were pursuing into SMA. I just, perhaps over-sensitively, took issue with characterizing the situation as awesome.
  - apathy 10y ago
    Fair enough, SMA is certainly not awesome for anyone whose kid is dying from it. I should be more measured in the words I choose. "It's a shame that a lab run by a guy who may be an asshole slave driver could negatively impact the perception of SMA research, but if he is in fact playing fast and loose with the facts, it will be better in the long term for him to stop working on SMA, or anything else"