12 ms·

Nevertheless quite possibly true. You hear people discuss VPN users in the same way

herbst 10y ago
And Tor users, and people who Google proxy. Sure, as soon as we managed to spread enough fear that only criminals would ever do that "they" reached what they wanted. This whole shit is based on the mysterious "lists", which as far as we know are just filters which are used with other filters to identify possible criminals. Even if there are lists its not relevant as long as there are enough people on it. I see your point, but i think saying things like this is dangerious.
- Bartweiss 10y ago
  I do wonder about the effects of privacy-paranoia, but at a certain point it feels dishonest not to say this. We already know that people searching for Tails are fingerprinted on that basis. (And, confusingly, that Tor searches outside Five Eyes territory are fingerprinted, but Tails searches anywhere count.) Of course, it's also worth pointing out that the cure for this isn't avoiding security and privacy tools. First because that doesn't help (someone knowing you use encryption still beats someone seeing what you didn't encrypt). And second, because normalizing these tools is a really good thing. Using browser privacy tools, and Signal, and whatever else you see fit isn't going to get an upstanding American in trouble, and it does help protect journalists and Turkish dissidents and all kinds of other people who benefit from these tools. So yeah, it's a tricky question, partly because you need something quick-and-readable to say. I agree with you that statements about tracking privacy seekers should generally come with an addendum of "but it's still good and won't get you in trouble on its own". https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/07/nsa_targets_pri.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/07/nsa_targets_p...
  - herbst 10y ago
    We dont know that they are fingerprinted like this no. At least not generally as in "people". The whole XKeystore thing is blown up by reporters who barely have a idea what they are talking about. What we know is that XKeystore offers filters for this kind of stuff. This could also just mean that if they look for a german hacker actively that they throw a few of those filters in. There is no reason to believe from the data we have that these filters are actively used against the general population. Dont get me wrong, i hate the NSA and actually the whole bullshit system the USA builds on. Also i am at least as paranoid as any other geek. But this topic is simply based on assumptions. Edit:// To further clearify, if this actually means that these filters are always used with other more concrete filters it does mean that _the general population_ (who uses Tails, Tor, Proxies) never ever showed up in any of those "lists" people seem to care so much about.

And Tor users, and people who Google proxy. Sure, as soon as we managed to spread enough fear that only criminals would ever do that "they" reached what they wanted. This whole shit is based on the mysterious "lists", which as far as we know are just filters which are used with other filters to identify possible criminals. Even if there are lists its not relevant as long as there are enough people on it. I see your point, but i think saying things like this is dangerious.

Bartweiss 10y ago
I do wonder about the effects of privacy-paranoia, but at a certain point it feels dishonest not to say this. We already know that people searching for Tails are fingerprinted on that basis. (And, confusingly, that Tor searches outside Five Eyes territory are fingerprinted, but Tails searches anywhere count.) Of course, it's also worth pointing out that the cure for this isn't avoiding security and privacy tools. First because that doesn't help (someone knowing you use encryption still beats someone seeing what you didn't encrypt). And second, because normalizing these tools is a really good thing. Using browser privacy tools, and Signal, and whatever else you see fit isn't going to get an upstanding American in trouble, and it does help protect journalists and Turkish dissidents and all kinds of other people who benefit from these tools. So yeah, it's a tricky question, partly because you need something quick-and-readable to say. I agree with you that statements about tracking privacy seekers should generally come with an addendum of "but it's still good and won't get you in trouble on its own". https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/07/nsa_targets_pri.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/07/nsa_targets_p...
- herbst 10y ago
  We dont know that they are fingerprinted like this no. At least not generally as in "people". The whole XKeystore thing is blown up by reporters who barely have a idea what they are talking about. What we know is that XKeystore offers filters for this kind of stuff. This could also just mean that if they look for a german hacker actively that they throw a few of those filters in. There is no reason to believe from the data we have that these filters are actively used against the general population. Dont get me wrong, i hate the NSA and actually the whole bullshit system the USA builds on. Also i am at least as paranoid as any other geek. But this topic is simply based on assumptions. Edit:// To further clearify, if this actually means that these filters are always used with other more concrete filters it does mean that _the general population_ (who uses Tails, Tor, Proxies) never ever showed up in any of those "lists" people seem to care so much about.