6 ms·

I dunno, what did German do to warrant the way he was treated? Showing up in the middle of the night and forcing him to a mental health facility against his wi

I dunno, what did German do to warrant the way he was treated? Showing up in the middle of the night and forcing him to a mental health facility against his will? Harvard investigators taking his writings? People believing he could be spiking their coffee with poison? It just sounds bizarre and German seems to be the real victim.

wyldfire 10y ago
It's extremely difficult to know who's account to trust. But it seems likely that both sides made missteps. Committing him is ludicrous. To me, it sounds like German may have set off this bitter battle and while he might not have mental health problems, he doesn't sound like a net positive team member.
- apathy 10y ago
  Apparently the judge did not see that as a reason to prevent him from finishing his work and delivering evidence one way or the other (maybe he's awesome and his work will show this, maybe he sucks and his work will show this). "Team science" is actively penalized, just so you know. You're either a rock star PI with 5 R01s and an indentured servant "research professor" to handle actual work, or you're nobody. It is, and always has been, all about the money -- those sweet, sweet indirects from NIH grants, and the endowments from gullible old rich people. Rubin sounds like an asshole, exactly the sort of PI that is selected for at many top-tier institutions. If he's really clever he'll "help" German GTFO of his lab and then write some coded instructions in recommendation letters ("if you've any questions, please call me at 617-867-5309"). And then things can go back to normal, hopefully with Rubin being more cautious and/or less vindictive the next time around.
- yardie 10y ago
  If net positive team member means go along to get along then you are right. He had questions about the integrity of the research data and reported that to the ethics board. For this his PI and team members branded him as crazy, going so far as to get him committed. If you suspect someone is tampering with your research you review the access logs or, better yet, put a camera on it. You don't spread a rumor that so and so is crazy and watch your coffee mugs because you don't know what crazy they might do. I believe the judge made the correct ruling. It's unfortunate for the lab and researchers that care caught in the middle.
linuxkerneldev 10y ago
> It just sounds bizarre and German seems to be the real victim. I have no idea since both stories seem plausible. That said, this portion stood out to me: " In January 2016, a postdoctoral researcher reported that German asked her to perform a tedious task, which she believed was disrespectful, leading to a dispute. German was “red in the face and shaking with rage,” she said in her sworn statement. " Reading the docket NO. 1681CV01640 shows: " The Lab Manager, LaLonde, who would have seen German daily (until May 21, 2016), described plaintiff as "odd sometimes in his behavior, but nothing requiring immediate action, no danger to himself or anyone." " " how they should treat him better and how he deserves things other people should not have. This behavior has lasted for a while. " That makes me question exactly who is the real victim. There doesn't seem to be enough evidence to know for sure. I've seen both types of things. I've seen advisors sabotage their pupils. I've seen pupils blame their advisors when things didn't go their way. I'm sure we've all heard how Robert Openheimer tried to poison his tutor at Cambridge. Unrelated, but still worth mentioning is also a suspicious suicide of a former lover of his. Openheimer got out of trouble, despite the attempted murder because of his parents influence at Cambridge. It is interesting that this article mentions German was with his parents as well. That swayed me a bit against believing that German was the real victim.
- LanceH 10y ago
  The bar for dragging someone away by force for potential involuntary commitment is pretty damn high. It's way above making an appointment with a psychiatrist and moving further if he skips the appointment.
  - mzs 10y ago
    It depends on where you live to some extent, but it goes like this where I live (I know cause it happened just like this). A (in this case well-meaning good) kid calls the police saying your kid is suicidal. The police and paramedics show-up to your house. You and your kid say all is fine, SI has passed but paramedics say a LCSW needs to make the call, police agree. They strap your kid to a stretcher and go to hospital. There you learn that a social worker cannot make the call unless your kid is sure to not be in an altered state (like say high on drugs), so you need for a nurse to draw blood and wait for results. A doctor looks at the test results showing no substances and calls for the LCSW. A social worker shows-up speaking to you and your kid separately. The social worker now needs to consult a psychologist and the doctor on call. The doctor on call discharges your kid from the ER. Clearly this can be abused, but I'm happy it's the way it is.
jessriedel 10y ago
> retaliation prompted by German’s allegation of scientific misconduct against Rubin and two of his students. (The allegation was later dismissed.) Allegations of academic misconduct can be a serious, career-ending thing, even if they are dismissed. If German did this maliciously, or even just negligently, Rubin might have been very justly incensed (but getting someone committed of course is completely unjustified).

wyldfire 10y ago

It's extremely difficult to know who's account to trust. But it seems likely that both sides made missteps. Committing him is ludicrous. To me, it sounds like German may have set off this bitter battle and while he might not have mental health problems, he doesn't sound like a net positive team member.

apathy 10y ago
Apparently the judge did not see that as a reason to prevent him from finishing his work and delivering evidence one way or the other (maybe he's awesome and his work will show this, maybe he sucks and his work will show this). "Team science" is actively penalized, just so you know. You're either a rock star PI with 5 R01s and an indentured servant "research professor" to handle actual work, or you're nobody. It is, and always has been, all about the money -- those sweet, sweet indirects from NIH grants, and the endowments from gullible old rich people. Rubin sounds like an asshole, exactly the sort of PI that is selected for at many top-tier institutions. If he's really clever he'll "help" German GTFO of his lab and then write some coded instructions in recommendation letters ("if you've any questions, please call me at 617-867-5309"). And then things can go back to normal, hopefully with Rubin being more cautious and/or less vindictive the next time around.
yardie 10y ago
If net positive team member means go along to get along then you are right. He had questions about the integrity of the research data and reported that to the ethics board. For this his PI and team members branded him as crazy, going so far as to get him committed. If you suspect someone is tampering with your research you review the access logs or, better yet, put a camera on it. You don't spread a rumor that so and so is crazy and watch your coffee mugs because you don't know what crazy they might do. I believe the judge made the correct ruling. It's unfortunate for the lab and researchers that care caught in the middle.

linuxkerneldev 10y ago

> It just sounds bizarre and German seems to be the real victim. I have no idea since both stories seem plausible. That said, this portion stood out to me: " In January 2016, a postdoctoral researcher reported that German asked her to perform a tedious task, which she believed was disrespectful, leading to a dispute. German was “red in the face and shaking with rage,” she said in her sworn statement. " Reading the docket NO. 1681CV01640 shows: " The Lab Manager, LaLonde, who would have seen German daily (until May 21, 2016), described plaintiff as "odd sometimes in his behavior, but nothing requiring immediate action, no danger to himself or anyone." " " how they should treat him better and how he deserves things other people should not have. This behavior has lasted for a while. " That makes me question exactly who is the real victim. There doesn't seem to be enough evidence to know for sure. I've seen both types of things. I've seen advisors sabotage their pupils. I've seen pupils blame their advisors when things didn't go their way. I'm sure we've all heard how Robert Openheimer tried to poison his tutor at Cambridge. Unrelated, but still worth mentioning is also a suspicious suicide of a former lover of his. Openheimer got out of trouble, despite the attempted murder because of his parents influence at Cambridge. It is interesting that this article mentions German was with his parents as well. That swayed me a bit against believing that German was the real victim.

LanceH 10y ago
The bar for dragging someone away by force for potential involuntary commitment is pretty damn high. It's way above making an appointment with a psychiatrist and moving further if he skips the appointment.
- mzs 10y ago
  It depends on where you live to some extent, but it goes like this where I live (I know cause it happened just like this). A (in this case well-meaning good) kid calls the police saying your kid is suicidal. The police and paramedics show-up to your house. You and your kid say all is fine, SI has passed but paramedics say a LCSW needs to make the call, police agree. They strap your kid to a stretcher and go to hospital. There you learn that a social worker cannot make the call unless your kid is sure to not be in an altered state (like say high on drugs), so you need for a nurse to draw blood and wait for results. A doctor looks at the test results showing no substances and calls for the LCSW. A social worker shows-up speaking to you and your kid separately. The social worker now needs to consult a psychologist and the doctor on call. The doctor on call discharges your kid from the ER. Clearly this can be abused, but I'm happy it's the way it is.

jessriedel 10y ago

> retaliation prompted by German’s allegation of scientific misconduct against Rubin and two of his students. (The allegation was later dismissed.) Allegations of academic misconduct can be a serious, career-ending thing, even if they are dismissed. If German did this maliciously, or even just negligently, Rubin might have been very justly incensed (but getting someone committed of course is completely unjustified).