4 ms·

Solaris died a long time ago, regardless of what roadmaps say. It died the day Oracle acquired it. Even if Oracle invested heavily in Solaris, it's hard to imag

by diegocg 10y ago

Solaris died a long time ago, regardless of what roadmaps say. It died the day Oracle acquired it. Even if Oracle invested heavily in Solaris, it's hard to imagine how they could match Linux long term. Solaris had opportunity to compete with Linux, by becoming a real open source project. Not in the Android sense ("we let you see and modify it, but we don't let you participate in the development), but in the Linux sense. Do all your development in the open, kill the bureaucracy, make other companies trust that they aren't being taken advantage of if they contribute to it. Sun attempted to go in this direction, but Oracle killed it.

jsiepkes 10y ago
The SmartOS / Illumos community is pretty vibrant and active! Also the OpenZFS community is also very much alive. Yeah Solaris could have been bigger if they hadnt killed Opensolaris but I think things turned out pretty well actually!
- walterbell 10y ago
  Can SmartOS / Illumos run on Xen/AWS? OpenSolaris had Xen support at one point.
  - solarengineer 10y ago
    The Xen support was opensolaris running a Xen Hypervisor. That was reverted from opensolaris, but later added to DilOS [1]. See OmniOS[2] - an Illumos distro that provides AMIs [3]. BTW, SmartOS and OmniOS both have support for Linux binaries within Zones, a superior Container technology. [1] http://www.dilos.org http://www.dilos.org [2] https://omnios.omniti.com https://omnios.omniti.com [3] https://omnios.omniti.com/wiki.php/Installation https://omnios.omniti.com/wiki.php/Installation
  - bcantrill 10y ago
    The Omni folks got this working for OmniOS[1]; we would love SmartOS support on AWS, but (as one might imagine) we at Joyent don't have an immediate commercial interest in it. That said, we do have a clear indirect commercial interest in it, and we would happily engage/encourage any effort for SmartOS on AWS. Given that it's been done for OmniOS, it shouldn't be difficult... [1] https://omnios.omniti.com/wiki.php/Ec2Ami https://omnios.omniti.com/wiki.php/Ec2Ami
    - walterbell 10y ago
      Microsoft supports Windows on multiple cloud providers, while competing vigorously to be the "best cloud" for running Windows. Joyent's business team surely knows the difference between demand generation for SmartOS (anywhere) and a marketing pitch for Joyent as the "best cloud for running SmartOS at scale". There is nothing indirect about a marketing funnel that makes it easy for the largest developer community to evaluate your operating system.
    - aszeszo 10y ago
      I got SmartOS running on EC2 back in 2015 as an exercise. https://twitter.com/aszeszo/status/658115638683115521 https://twitter.com/aszeszo/status/658115638683115521 The details below may be useful for whoever wants to get the latest images running on EC2 again. Unfortunately, I don't have time to tinker with this stuff after-hours anymore: Required patches from Delphix illumos tree (at the time): 58b782ef6ec93fef26ab349aff81e8748f673b24 32722 Xen PV disks don't have properties set 09846dfe2cfc30fe54d80637aea0aa38b64127ed 33942 Creating xdf.conf file causes the kernel to panic on boot 2c4f787714ba44c84b8ed4dfb7ad05288c942a0e 34224 Xen HVM VM with 32 VCPUs hangs on boot 1fc3b35c42d5aeadb1e9c8b7308f3c33cfba00ac 34424 Some PV devices should not be configured in HVM mode 91f305d4c307729116dfa89022334083bf817058 34508 Expose xdf minor nodes when in PV-HVM mode 718bba6535f2a3423643aede0067775730a15a23 35310 Fix iostat on the EC2 instances Files that had to be updated in the the vanilla SmartOS image after building the smartos-live tree: platform/i86hvm/kernel/drv/amd64/cmdk platform/i86hvm/kernel/drv/amd64/rtls platform/i86hvm/kernel/drv/amd64/sd platform/i86hvm/kernel/drv/amd64/xdf platform/i86hvm/kernel/drv/amd64/xnf platform/i86hvm/kernel/drv/amd64/xpv platform/i86hvm/kernel/drv/amd64/xpvd platform/i86hvm/kernel/drv/xpvd.conf platform/i86hvm/kernel/misc/amd64/hvm_bootstrap platform/i86hvm/kernel/misc/amd64/hvm_cmdk platform/i86hvm/kernel/misc/amd64/hvm_sd I would be cool to see official SmartOS images on EC2!
  - edsouza 10y ago
    SmartOS can run under Xen. The version I am running doesn't work with more than one CPU (SmartOS Live Image v0.147+ build: 20160622T220759Z), and I think the network interface defaults to using the realtek 8139 driver. This was enough for my situation, but not optimal for heavy use.
raverbashing 10y ago
But why would people develop for Solaris if there is Linux and the BSDs? Sincere question
- lallysingh 10y ago
  Solaris had a lot of useful and unique features, and was backed with a substantial support apparatus. If you developed a feature for Solaris that got in, it'd be documented and supported to quite a high degree. If you wanted support from the primary vendor of your OS, and wanted a pretty high-quality Unix, Solaris would fill that niche for you. There's definitely a market for that, but not nearly enough to keep Sun or Solaris alive.
  - tossedaway334 10y ago
    OpenSolaris did not accept contributions.
- kruhft 10y ago
  Stability.
  - PopsiclePete 10y ago
    a.k.a. stagnation?
    - kruhft 10y ago
      No, the ability for the machine to not crash or need to be rebooted for long periods of time. Linux has gone completely downhill in this respect for the past few years. Switching to Solaris on my main Unix workstation has been a breath of fresh air compared to the constant naggering from Linux systems for updates, but I like old school...because it seems to 'just work'.
      - secabeen 10y ago
        Many Linux systems now support livepatch to update the kernel for security fixes without rebooting.
tossedaway334 10y ago
I doubt it would have met with long term success, Sun played a lot of the same stupid liscening games they did with Java.
- gtirloni 10y ago
  Exactly. You couldn't build OpenSolaris without proprietary blobs, the build process only worked correctly inside Sun's network, code contributions were not accepted. Under Sun the OpenSolaris project had already started to take technical decisions behind closed doors more and more (it was easy to confirm this from their bug tracking system that differentiated between public and private tickets). I dont understand why people think Sun was the open source god in the sky. Perhaps too much emotional attachment from the "good old days", but I can't relate. 6 or so years ago I thought Solaris would have a fighting chance. I was naive.

by diegocg 10y ago

jsiepkes 10y ago

The SmartOS / Illumos community is pretty vibrant and active! Also the OpenZFS community is also very much alive. Yeah Solaris could have been bigger if they hadnt killed Opensolaris but I think things turned out pretty well actually!

walterbell 10y ago
Can SmartOS / Illumos run on Xen/AWS? OpenSolaris had Xen support at one point.
- solarengineer 10y ago
  The Xen support was opensolaris running a Xen Hypervisor. That was reverted from opensolaris, but later added to DilOS [1]. See OmniOS[2] - an Illumos distro that provides AMIs [3]. BTW, SmartOS and OmniOS both have support for Linux binaries within Zones, a superior Container technology. [1] http://www.dilos.org http://www.dilos.org [2] https://omnios.omniti.com https://omnios.omniti.com [3] https://omnios.omniti.com/wiki.php/Installation https://omnios.omniti.com/wiki.php/Installation
- bcantrill 10y ago
  The Omni folks got this working for OmniOS[1]; we would love SmartOS support on AWS, but (as one might imagine) we at Joyent don't have an immediate commercial interest in it. That said, we do have a clear indirect commercial interest in it, and we would happily engage/encourage any effort for SmartOS on AWS. Given that it's been done for OmniOS, it shouldn't be difficult... [1] https://omnios.omniti.com/wiki.php/Ec2Ami https://omnios.omniti.com/wiki.php/Ec2Ami
  - walterbell 10y ago
    Microsoft supports Windows on multiple cloud providers, while competing vigorously to be the "best cloud" for running Windows. Joyent's business team surely knows the difference between demand generation for SmartOS (anywhere) and a marketing pitch for Joyent as the "best cloud for running SmartOS at scale". There is nothing indirect about a marketing funnel that makes it easy for the largest developer community to evaluate your operating system.
  - aszeszo 10y ago
    I got SmartOS running on EC2 back in 2015 as an exercise. https://twitter.com/aszeszo/status/658115638683115521 https://twitter.com/aszeszo/status/658115638683115521 The details below may be useful for whoever wants to get the latest images running on EC2 again. Unfortunately, I don't have time to tinker with this stuff after-hours anymore: Required patches from Delphix illumos tree (at the time): 58b782ef6ec93fef26ab349aff81e8748f673b24 32722 Xen PV disks don't have properties set 09846dfe2cfc30fe54d80637aea0aa38b64127ed 33942 Creating xdf.conf file causes the kernel to panic on boot 2c4f787714ba44c84b8ed4dfb7ad05288c942a0e 34224 Xen HVM VM with 32 VCPUs hangs on boot 1fc3b35c42d5aeadb1e9c8b7308f3c33cfba00ac 34424 Some PV devices should not be configured in HVM mode 91f305d4c307729116dfa89022334083bf817058 34508 Expose xdf minor nodes when in PV-HVM mode 718bba6535f2a3423643aede0067775730a15a23 35310 Fix iostat on the EC2 instances Files that had to be updated in the the vanilla SmartOS image after building the smartos-live tree: platform/i86hvm/kernel/drv/amd64/cmdk platform/i86hvm/kernel/drv/amd64/rtls platform/i86hvm/kernel/drv/amd64/sd platform/i86hvm/kernel/drv/amd64/xdf platform/i86hvm/kernel/drv/amd64/xnf platform/i86hvm/kernel/drv/amd64/xpv platform/i86hvm/kernel/drv/amd64/xpvd platform/i86hvm/kernel/drv/xpvd.conf platform/i86hvm/kernel/misc/amd64/hvm_bootstrap platform/i86hvm/kernel/misc/amd64/hvm_cmdk platform/i86hvm/kernel/misc/amd64/hvm_sd I would be cool to see official SmartOS images on EC2!
- edsouza 10y ago
  SmartOS can run under Xen. The version I am running doesn't work with more than one CPU (SmartOS Live Image v0.147+ build: 20160622T220759Z), and I think the network interface defaults to using the realtek 8139 driver. This was enough for my situation, but not optimal for heavy use.

raverbashing 10y ago

But why would people develop for Solaris if there is Linux and the BSDs? Sincere question

lallysingh 10y ago
Solaris had a lot of useful and unique features, and was backed with a substantial support apparatus. If you developed a feature for Solaris that got in, it'd be documented and supported to quite a high degree. If you wanted support from the primary vendor of your OS, and wanted a pretty high-quality Unix, Solaris would fill that niche for you. There's definitely a market for that, but not nearly enough to keep Sun or Solaris alive.
- tossedaway334 10y ago
  OpenSolaris did not accept contributions.
kruhft 10y ago
Stability.
- PopsiclePete 10y ago
  a.k.a. stagnation?
  - kruhft 10y ago
    No, the ability for the machine to not crash or need to be rebooted for long periods of time. Linux has gone completely downhill in this respect for the past few years. Switching to Solaris on my main Unix workstation has been a breath of fresh air compared to the constant naggering from Linux systems for updates, but I like old school...because it seems to 'just work'.
    - secabeen 10y ago
      Many Linux systems now support livepatch to update the kernel for security fixes without rebooting.

tossedaway334 10y ago

I doubt it would have met with long term success, Sun played a lot of the same stupid liscening games they did with Java.

gtirloni 10y ago
Exactly. You couldn't build OpenSolaris without proprietary blobs, the build process only worked correctly inside Sun's network, code contributions were not accepted. Under Sun the OpenSolaris project had already started to take technical decisions behind closed doors more and more (it was easy to confirm this from their bug tracking system that differentiated between public and private tickets). I dont understand why people think Sun was the open source god in the sky. Perhaps too much emotional attachment from the "good old days", but I can't relate. 6 or so years ago I thought Solaris would have a fighting chance. I was naive.